| placed firmly on a pedastal |
[Jul. 16th, 2008|12:43 pm] |
Ever stand in line at a carnival or theme park and there is the measuring stick to see if you are tall enough to enter the ride? Now imagine that when you are outside Heaven's doors and there is one of these sticks; as you step up to it and start looking up to see the top of it, and the stick is so tall that it goes on for infinity into the clouds and you can not even concieve that there is an end to this stick. You feel simply belittled and hopeless when you try to measure up against this stick. You look around quickly and see a sign that simply says "you must be this Holy to enter." So I was sitting and listening to talk radio and the DJ asked his audience "What happens when you die?" Now this is an atheist and he basically asked it hoping to get religionists to call so he can belittle and laugh at them. It was kinda rude... but I digress. When I first clicked it on it was a Christian who was answering his question. It was fascinating to listen to. The DJ actually attempted to critique the Christian by raising an objection, which happens to be raised in the Gospels (Matt 22:23-33). I do not know if it is more sad that the DJ sets himself up as an authority of scholarship against the Bible and doesn't know what the Bible actually says, or that the Christian couldn't give a biblical response. Again, I digress... Anyways, what I actually wanted to talk about was that after the Christian caller hung up he started explaining his position. He is an atheist and doesn't think anything happens when we die (what a meaningful life!), but then critiqued any exclusive religion with the basic idea that humans are generally good enough to get into heaven. He said something along the lines of "Religions that think that good people are going to Hell are just wrong. How can a good dad, or daughter, or aunt, or mother, if they try thier best, go to Hell?" The simple and quick response off my lips was "Simply to speak, nobody is good enough." But then as I sat and pondered it more something else came to mind: It is really the height of arrogance to think that even our best is good enough to please an infintely holy God. How prideful must we be to think that we are ever going to be good enough for God's best rewards? As I repeated this to my friend, his response was actually better than mine. He said "actually the Mormons are the height of arrogance, they think they become gods!". I conceded the point with a chuckle but continued to ponder the radio show. And another thing struck me: It is easier to believe that everyone is going to Hell than it is for everyone to be going to Heaven. It is easier for me to look at the world, and any individual in it, and see their sins and tell them they are on the Highway to Hell than to look at them and try to tickle thier ears with a "just be yourself, you are good enough" message. Now if God is perfectly Holy, and we are to please Him then it makes sense that we would have to match that holiness. Besides any doctrine of original sin, can anyone actually say that they are perfectly Holy? Any honest person simply can't. And as such is fully deserving of NOT recieving God's best. It is simple, we are imperfect and the standard for Heaven is perfection. This DJ was simply thinking that he not only outwitted the Christian, but also outwitted the God of the Bible, that is arrogance! He has perched himself firmly on his pedastal, not willing to be knocked off. But as he sits up on that "high-chair" he still will not even be able see the top of the pole outside the doors of Heaven. |
|
|
| Can't we all just get along?!? |
[Apr. 19th, 2008|01:34 pm] |
|
I was kindly asked to answer (sub-weekly) questions for Kettering University's Campus Crusade for Christ group (http://www.ketteringcru.com/). A friend of mine attends there and I decided to help him out. I decided to also post my replies here on my blogs. Here is my next question: Given the mutual exclusivity of most faiths, how can strong, devoted adherents of different faiths coexist peacefully at all? Is it right for adherents of one faith to attempt to "convert" those of another?
-------------------------------------------- “Can’t we all just get along?” This is a good question, actually. And seemingly more relevant today than in times past, especially with the clash of cultures that we are experiencing with the new communication and transportation technologies, not to mention the war on terror which can be confused as a religious war. Can’t we all just get along? And the answer to this is… this is a tough question. To give a quip answer, “yes, we can all just get along, it is logically possible”. If certain people and thinkers had their way then we would all be sitting around a large campfire, holding hands, and singing inoffensive songs likened to Kumbaya (of course without the “my Lord” references since that would offend someone). But since I do not see too many people doing that (not even myself), then the answer is no, we can’t just get along. But then again, it depends on what we mean by “just getting along”. Like I just said, if getting along means holding hands and swaying back and forth while doing inaudible chants, then no. But if getting along means living peacefully then I think it is possible, yes we can just get along. Unless a person or group of people that we need to play nice with refuses to do so. We can all just get along if people lay aside the part of their beliefs that tell them not to get along. So there are two things going on here. One is that religion is… now get this, this is key… that religion is important. These are matters of Heaven and Hell, where are you going to spend eternity? if anywhere? If there is an all knowing, all powerful, omnipresent, creator that puts demands on our lives and will judge us, and this judgment effects eternity, then this is no small matter. So asking if we can all just get along means that we have to lay down the most important thing in our lives, clearly we can not. Secondly is what each person’s religion demands of us. If a religion demands for us to not get along, then we won’t. In fact, in order for us to all just get along around that campfire, we need to lay aside religion. If the biggest point of controversy that divides us is religion, then in order to just get along means we have to belittle religion. I think it is funny that those who hate religion, those are directly opposed to God, those who think that religion poisons everything, usually use an argument about religion causing strife. And their only solution that they offer is to destroy or belittle all religion. To some sense I think that the post-modern shift, the denial of truth, is to destroy the sting of religion. If you can deny ultimate truth, or at least deny that there is one true religion, then there is a sense in where we no longer have to meet those demands. If people no longer worked to meet the demands of their god then we could all just get along. I have heard time and again that it seems arrogant to think that religion is nothing more than mere opinion, I have heard that if anyone makes a claim to truth then it is just pride (the funny thing about that is that when that accusation arises they are making truth claims concerning religion as well). So if we make religion nothing more than opinion then we can put it down and regard it as such. It is usually ignored that if all God gets relegated is mere opinion, then there is no religious truth. To these people picking a faith is like picking your favorite ice cream flavor. To be post-modernist is to be agnostic at best because nothing is more than opinion. But because religionists are making what they consider truth claims, then the severity is different. There are truths to these questions that are asked by religions. God either does or does not exist, Jesus either is or is not the messiah, and to relegate these life-changing questions to mere opinion is to a horrible disservice, mainly to the post-modernist. So since these are truth claims, and since these are important truth claims that have an eternal impact, it is foolish to think as post-modernists do. I have heard it quipped that we shouldn’t be so open minded that our brains fall out… I agree. So can’t we all just get along? We could get along, if our convictions allow us to get along. Since there is no putting the convictions away, we need to look at the specific claims that each faith makes. I feel that this is where many go wrong. Modern atheist thinkers like to group peaceful Christians, like myself, along with fundamentalist Muslims. And, unfortunately, Christians lump peaceful Muslims with the kind that like to play with bombs. That is an unfair generalization since the worldview for each person is totally different. I am not a fundamentalist Muslim. I have no desire to do violence for my religion, I do not feel that Christianity teaches that we should do violence for our faith. So instead of lumping all religions together as one evil thing, we need to separate it out and look at each group. In order for us to get along, our convictions must allow us to just get along. What does “just getting along” mean? If you want it to mean a hippy type of universal and free love then I think it is absurd to think it can happen. If getting along means we must agree, then it is also ill placed since it is clear that people disagree… even on the smallest details (Reformed theologians actually argue about the order of God’s thoughts in creation… yes, we argue over the God’s thought process… maybe we have nothing better to do?...I dunno… but the point is, we all disagree). So we can never get along if it means we all must agree. Does “just getting along” mean we simply co-exist without hurting each other? Again, this boils down to what people’s convictions are. And I think it is important that we reclaim the definition of tolerance. People who believe that there is a thing as truth get called intolerant. Even if the person never does anything hateful, just the fact they have an exclusive belief they are considered intolerant. This is not the historical definition of the term. Tolerant used to mean to “live with the other person respectfully, even with disagreement”. It has been redefined as “holding hands and singing a secular version of Kumbaya”. Then this redefined term has been used as a whipping stick against those who do not conform to this new image. I consider myself tolerant, not because I have a camping trip planned this weekend, but because I listen and respect other points of views, even if I speak out against them. As long as I can disagree respectively, present my disagreement in a respectful manner, and not attempt to physically hurt the person or their family, then I think I am being tolerant. I am tolerating that someone is not… well, me. So I think we are getting closer to what we need to do to “just get along”. We can’t all be forced to agree, nor can we be forced to ignore the most important things in life, nor can we deny their importance. So we must respectfully disagree, and not forfeit our convictions and truth claims. (Now I am not saying that we shouldn’t ever change our mind based on better evidence, I am not suggesting a hard headedness). If a religion teaches tolerance (not the “ooey-gooey warm and fuzzy” kind, but the respectfully disagree kind), the those people can be tolerant. If a religion teaches violence, then tolerance is not accepted. I feel that true Christian conviction teaches love, even those you disagree with. Yes, there are so-called Christians who perform stupid or violent acts, but they are not following what Christianity really teaches. So another distinction that needs to be made is what the religion actually teaches and what people actually do, these are two different things. If a person is not acting out of love, then they are not acting according to Christ. Christians should defend the Christian faith, and attempt to spread it, but do so peacefully. Not once is the faith of God actually spread by the sword in the Bible (now all of you who are going to cry wolf need to be reminded that the Jews entering Canaan was not an evangelistic attempt, it was punishment and promise), Christ teaches us to evangelize with proclamation of forgiveness of sins. Now some Christian groups do not do that right, I would be hard pressed to say that they are following Christ. But even worse is that there are religions that teach violence. I feel that true Islam is one of them (I am not saying that all Muslims are violent, there are those that are peace-loving.). A systematic look at the Koran will show that the teachings of Mohammed were contradictory unless you place them in historical context. One place in the Koran it states that Muslims should get along with “people of the book” and that there is “no compulsion in religion”. But other times it teaches that believing that Christ is Lord is “shirk” and they should “behead the infidels”. These seemingly contradictory statements are explained by realizing the time period that Mohammed was writing them. The peaceful statements occurred early on in his ministry before there was any political or religious disagreement. But as he felt more pressure and felt threatened the violent passages were revealed. The Koran also teaches that latter revelation triumphs older revelation. So you put it together. Since there are people who feel that violence and true intolerance are ordained by God we will never all “just get along.” Nor am I saying Christians have a perfect track record, but I feel that those times are not in obedience to Christ. So I feel that Christians should act in accordance with Christianity and be peaceful. But we can not control, and should not be lumped with, other violent people who feel that hatred is ordained by God. So the answer to the open ended “can’t we all just get along?” is “no, we can’t”. But the better question is “can we tolerate each other?” I think this is best answered by asking who we are talking to. A Christian should answer “yes, I can tolerate others”. I will let the people of other convictions speak, and act, for themselves. (And no, my allowing them to speak for themselves is not contradicted by my short exposition above on the Koran. Mainly because I was interpreting the Koran, not speaking on anyone’s behalf. We must separate the faith from the people. I can criticize a belief and still be respectful to the person. Also, this is not a contradiction because I said there are peace-loving Muslims.)
So the second part of this question was if people have the right to evangelize. I would obviously say yes. In fact I would argue we have the responsibility to. First and foremost every religion teaches evangelization to some degree, so it is ordained by every god to evangelize. To deny a person from the right to spread their faith is to deny a central tenant of that faith. Therefore any loyal Christian should be looking for opportunities to share. And like the whole discussion above states, we should do so in a peaceful way. Also, if these are topics of Heaven and Hell, eternity and ultimate truth, then we have a responsibility to other to proclaim the Gospel. In fact the least loving thing we can do is not proclaim because the lack of proclamation means that people are for sure not saved. So it is out of the deepest respect for others that we feel we should evangelize. Our motives should be out of love and wanting to share the message of truth. Too many times Christians (myself included) get wrapped up in “being right” that you win the argument but lose the person. If we are acting out of love, then our actions should reflect that. Which means that we do evangelize openly, but lovingly. And this does NOT exclude defending the faith with apologetics or philosophy, just we need to do it out of love. And this also doesn’t exclude showing that other faiths are wrong with polemics, just must do so with the right intention and respect. If I am right that Christianity is a peaceful religion, then the spreading of it should bring about more peace. So there should be a social responsibility to so do as well. And finally, although not least, if Christianity is true, as in the facts that compose the Christian faith reflect reality, then we have the responsibility to teach it. Like a teacher has the responsibility to mark a student’s paper wrong if they say 2+2=5. Christians, know the “right answer” should want to correct people just for truth’s sake. Why should we allow people to be ignorant of truth? And like I mentioned above, believing a lie about God can result in more than a small red “x” on a piece of paper. This truth is one that needs to be shared, and any wrong answer should be corrected. There is no value in believing in falsehoods, and Christians should help educate people. Basically, as Christians we should desire to spread our faith. And out of obedience we should do so. But in relationship to the first question, we should do so peacefully and out of love.
|
|
|
| Daily Bread |
[Mar. 17th, 2008|09:00 pm] |
I was kindly asked to answer (sub-weekly) questions for Kettering University’s Campus Crusade for Christ group (http://www.ketteringcru.com/). A friend of mine attends there and I decided to help him out. I decided to also post my replies here on my blogs. Here is my next question: Is the Bible inerrant? -------------------------------------------- This is a good question, how do Christians understand inerrancy? Personally I think that the accuracy of scriptures should be held by every Christian, and should not really be part of the debate amongst Christians. It seems to me that the main reason to deny the authority of Scriptures is to deny the authority of God and to make excuse for sin, or pride fully think that we know more than God. We should be humble and want to come under the authority of God’s word if we claim to follow the Lord. For most theological discussions we start with the authority of Scripture then make our theological case from there. With inerrancy, to do so would seem either self verifying at best, circular reasoning at worst. So to do an authoritative argument would require a higher authority than Scriptures. The only higher authority would be God Himself. The apparent dilemma with this is that the only way to know anything certain about God is with Scriptures. So to argue for Scriptures via God then to argue for God via the Scriptures is again seemingly circular reasoning. So in the history of theology Christians have taken two routes, one is to assume God then say that Scriptures are from this God or to start with Scriptures and say that they talk about this God. This is a theological prolegomena issue, not meant for this apologetic argument. Now as an aside, this is a seeming problem that any believer of any religion with any form of scriptures. What is the authority? What the god has given or the god itself? But this is not only a problem for religionists, it is also a problem for non-theists because they are also assuming non-theism and (usually) putting a form of humanistic logic in the gods’ place. So it is impossible to do any philosophy without assuming something. Every philosophy at least assumes that philosophy can be done! Therefore while doing any type of critical thought there are assumptions and presuppositions. So a non-believer CANNOT accuse Christians of circular reasoning because all philosophies have a starting point, and the accuser would be a hypocrite. What I think is funny, personally, is that in today’s world skepticism and relativism is the key mindset, especially about religious topics. It is a source of pride to be agnostic. But then it is a social sin to be skeptical or relative when it comes to any secular science. I have talked to person after person who would make claims like "We can’t be certain of anything" then later say something like "evolution is a fact", this is inconsistent. This is nothing short of a double standard. If skepticism is your philosophy then it should run through everything from faith, to science, to skepticism itself (if you are a true skeptic you should be skeptical of skepticism). For some reason it is better to be ignorant about issues of faith. It seems that very few people are made aware of this double standard. The next prologue issue is that my previous (long) argument for miracles and rationality lays out an argument that true rationality, logic, morality, etc. are all founded on transcendentals. And any naturalistic philosophy is totally unable to account for non-natural things. And so the best starting point for any philosophy is to start off with a philosophy with the best explanatory power, Christianity. In order to argue against Christianity you have to assume a system that accounts for rationality, communication, morality, etc. (Christianity is the only one), otherwise unbelievers have no logical, rational, moral, or other basis to criticize anything. The foundation for human knowledge should be a Christian understanding of the world, and everything else falls short. Part of the Christian understanding for the world is belief in the Bible. There seems to be only a few things that anyone can do to show inerrancy. That is to assume it, say that we can’t be rational without it (which is what I have done previously and mentioned above), to create an argument from a higher authority (only God Himself, which is discussed above and below), or to sit here and prove every preposition in the Bible as true (impossible to do, since we do not have a time machine, there are a countless number of prepositions, and some prepositions are philosophical and can’t be observed naturally). One question that must be asked is who carries the burden of proof? Is it those who affirm inerrancy or those who affirm errors within the Bible? Since inerrancy is actually a negative claim ("the Bible is without error") and the critic makes a positive claim that "the Bible has error". It is up to the critic to make a case for the affirmative, not the Christian to make a case for the negative. The burden of proof is on the skeptic, not the believer. And so far any attempt to undercut inerrancy has been met by Christians, there is good apologetic work out there answering the claims of supposed contradictions and problems. I would argue the believer is justified in holding to inerrancy until it is proven wrong. Now let’s define inerrancy. Unless we do we will get into a load of messes. Few know that there is a difference between infallibility and inerrancy. Infallibility relates to that the teachings of the Bible are without question. When it comes to matters of faith, morals, life, and worldview it cannot go wrong. This seems to deny the fullness of what we want to convey though. To be inerrant it has to be without error, not just without error in final teachings. So infallibility is the discussion of "is the Bible’s message true?" where the questions of inerrancy is "is there error in the Bible?" So if you hold to inerrancy you naturally hold to infallibility, but that same does not go vice versa. This article is a discussion on inerrancy. Also, inerrancy is often confused with inspiration. Inspiration is the means that God used to give His people Scriptures, not the claim of inerrancy. Surely belief in inspiration should lead us to a view of inerrancy, but they are different claims. If inspiration can be shown then inerrancy should follow, but it is outside the scope of this article to get into the technical details of inspiration. The two, although related, should not be confused. Next we need to make a distinction between what the Bible actually teaches and what people think it teaches. Bad theology or bad exegesis is not the fault of the Bible. So we must not conclude the Bible is not inerrant because someone’s understanding of the Bible is errant. I find it funny how many skeptics need to attack a straw man of a bad thinker and claim it is Christian, versus what the Bible actually claims. This is popular with Muslim thinkers who attack false ideas of the Trinity and then call the false view "Christian" when it is in fact not. We must not confuse beliefs about the Bible with the Bible itself. Also we must consider that the Bible has been handwritten, copied, and translated throughout the years. It would be wrong to assume that every copy of the Bible is inerrant, or that every copyist or translator was inspired. God has not promised to keep the Bible perfect and without copyist problems. I believe God has, in fact, preserved His Word for His church, but the method He used was not by inspiring each copyist or burning every bad copy, but rather by giving us such a great witness of copies with so little alterations that we can trust the original text has not changed significantly. So we might need to do some textual criticism and some history, but the original words of the Bible are present. Concerning the New Testament there is less than 5% difference with all the manuscripts, to discern the proper reading is usually not a hard challenge, and none of these copyist errors affect any doctrine or belief. So we can only argue that the original writings were inerrant. But this doesn’t affect the reliability of what we have today. We also must consider that inerrancy doesn’t lay claim to exhaustiveness. Clearly the Bible doesn’t talk about computers, that doesn’t hurt inerrancy since the claim is not that the Bible is exhaustive revelation. I find that many who attack inerrancy do so on false grounds. So I am going to say here what doesn’t affect inerrancy more specifically. Here are a few points: - Inerrancy doesn’t need to account for grammar used by the authors. Luke was more educated than John, that doesn’t mean that the possible grammatical errors are a case against inerrancy since the Spirit’s role is not to underline the Scriptures with a green scribbled line. This is more of an issue of inspiration and how the Spirit used the language of the author to speak truth. - Also, the authors used the language of the day in which they were in. As such poetry, parables, figures of speech, etc. doesn’t affect how we properly view inerrancy. If I wrote a poem after I wrote this article your mind should tell the difference without many problems. We should give the Biblical authors the same freedom. I do not interpret the Bible "literally", I attempt to interpret the Scriptures the why the author would have intended them to be interpreted (like if I wrote poetry I expect your to read it as poetry). - The authors also used round numbers and sometimes lacked precision that we can attain with today’s technology. We mustn’t think that this affects inerrancy. It is not the intention of the authors to use precise technical or scientific language and we should not hold them to that standard. Even we today use language of appearance (we say the "sun rises" when it really doesn’t rise); and language of appearance (aka "phenomenological language") was even more prominent in Biblical times. - Many times the New Testament (NT) cites ideas and passages from the Old Testament (OT), and the citation is not an exact quote. This doesn’t affect inerrancy, we all think that paraphrases are not inaccurate. The same goes with when these authors cite other people. - It is the Scriptures that are inspired, not the authors. We see the errors of Peter in Galatians and the Gospels, and Paul is clear about his life of sin. That doesn’t make the texts they authored any less inspired. - Human authorship of the Scriptures doesn’t affect inerrancy, this discussion is better handled when discussing inspiration. Like mentioned above, inerrancy is a claim of negation, not a claim of assertion. It is argued that their is no error in the Bible. So the definition should follow with this in mind. For the Christian to argue the affirmative means that they must provide a defense for every claim Scriptures make, this can not be done. So inerrancy is best understood as that the Bible contains no error in what it asserts in the original autographs. Now for arguments Christians can use to support inerrancy… The accusation of circular reasoning above is almost a false dilemma. It is true that God is the highest authority, after which His inspired words. But the question is how else has God revealed anything? Scriptures are the greatest non-self revelation, but self revelation still needs to be included as the highest form of revelation. So we can look at how God Himself has revealed anything about Scriptures. Now, to do so in some areas we need to step away from seeing the Bible as inspired, but rather as merely an accurate history. If we don’t assume inerrancy while doing the argument we are then not committing a circular argument. So to make a few arguments for inerrancy I will lay down my presupposition of inerrancy and just hold that the Bible has some true historical elements. Which even skeptics would agree. Surely to not assume inerrancy doesn’t mean that the whole text is inaccurate and untrustworthy. So we can look at some historical things and believe they are reliable. This is not the place to argue for the historicity of these events that I mention. So, what Has God done historically to tell us what we should think about inerrancy? As I eluded to above, self revelation. God has entered the world first and foremost in the person of Jesus Christ. So let’s turn to some of the teachings of Jesus on His view of the Scriptures. If Christ is Lord (as He self revealed by calling Himself "I AM" in Jo 8:58) then we can trust what he says about the Scriptures. Again, I am not looking to an infallible text to prove an infallible text, I am looking to a historical person of authority, Jesus Himself, for this belief. Jesus commonly argued from Scriptures, assuming their authority, like in Mark 10:1-9. He also refers to historical characters and places of the OT as if they were real (Lu 11:51, Jo 8:56, Mat 10:15, Mat 22:43, Lu 4:25-27, Lu 11:51, Mat 8:4, Mat 12:41, etc). He used the Law as a guide for ethics in Matt 22:37-40. He used the ancient formula to refer to the Scriptures as an authority (like "God said" or "It is written") in places like Matt 4:4. In fact Jesus rested His own reputation on the Scriptures in Mat 26:64. Also, Jesus sees the OT as prophetic and the prophecies to be fulfilled for real in Lu 18:31-33, Lu 24:44-47, and Jo 15:25. Jesus clearly understood that the Scriptures were accurate and can be trusted. Look how Christ used the Scriptures in Mat 4 to fight sin. Jesus has lead by example that the OT is trustworthy. Jesus also gives us an idea for what the nature of the Scriptures are. He claims that they are from God in Mat 22:29. In Mat 22:31 where Jesus says "have you not read what God said to you?" This is interesting because He is pointing His hearers to READ what God SAID in the OT. He is affirming that the written Scriptures have the same authority as if God was speaking. Furthermore we see that it is speaking "to you". Although the OT quotation took place in history, Jesus saw the writing as binding to those in His present day. Christ understood the Scriptures to be from God and authoritative. He likewise shows us that it is by the Spirit of God that Scriptures come, like in Mark 12:36. We plainly see that Jesus, a historical figure of authority, understood the scriptures as being an authority. He applied to them every area of life, used them in argument, and believed them to be accurate in prophecy, history, and ethics. If we trust that Jesus was at least a good teacher then we should review His understanding of the nature of Scriptures. If He is God revealing Himself then we can be certain that what He thinks is true. Another argument is how the apostle’s and early church viewed the scriptures. This is not to say that the early church is a necessary authority, but rather we can see what they taught and believed. Paul clearly held the Scriptures to be an authority in 2 Tim 3. He claims they are there to make people wise unto salvation and that they have their origin in God with authority for "every good work". Peter also gave the Scriptures a great position of authority in 2 Peter 1:19-21. In fact, many think Peter is partly saying that the Scriptures are "more certain" than His own eye-witness account in the verses that precede 19. The early church trusted the account of the Scriptures in Acts 17:11 more than they trusted the apostle’s, and then found the apostle’s teaching to be consistent with the OT. Paul lays the scriptures down as the oracles of God in Rom 3:2. The often references to the Scriptures in Acts (1:20, 13:33, 15:15, 23:5, 17:2, 18:24, 18:28, etc.) shows us how they used them, and thought them to be authority. The apostles believed the Scriptures had their authority and origin in the mouth of God. We can also tell by their constant use of the OT as proper history and using the themes and teachings as good for their usage as seen in 1 Cor. 15, Rom 9:13, Gal 3:10, Gal 4:22, Heb 10:7, and 1 Pet 1:16. The apostles were clear in how they understood the scriptures, they were normative for life, from God, and are free from the stain of error. If you hold the apostle’s teaching to any regard then their usage of scripture can’t be ignored. If we look through the history of the church we will see a similar trend. The church has historically maintained that the Scriptures are inerrant and have their origin in God. To give a few short examples we see that Augustine writes "no author in these books made any error" (Epist 82, 1, 3). Jerome wrote "the laws and testimonies are bonds of truth" (Epist. Ad Fabiolam 78, 30). The Reformation was based on a principle called "Sola Scriptura" which assume the validity of the Biblical text. We can see that throughout church history the belief in the accuracy of Scripture is maintained. If you see the history and traditions of the church to be convincing then further study will yield a belief in the inerrancy of the texts. When there are alleged problems, contradictions or errors I find a general trend. First of all, the error that is pointed out is not an error at all. Many times scripture is ripped out of context and misused by the skeptic to give the appearance of inconsistency. Secondly we see that many of the problems (like differing details in the Gospels) can be easily smoothed out. Like how many women are at Jesus’ tomb can easily be explained by saying that we do not know the total list and every list given is incomplete. Many "errors" are easily sorted out with given the text a fair reading. Thirdly, many errors come from a view point of bad theology. The skeptic assumes a poor theological position then points out an inconsistent piece of scripture. Many times if the theology is corrected the inconsistency goes away. Fourthly, there are copyist errors (like the number of stalls Solomon had), one later copyist accidentally added or removed a "0". And finally if you allow the authors to use round numbers and common language many supposed mistakes disappear. Applying these principles gets rid of most proposed problems greatly weakening the critic’s case against inerrancy. It is arrogant to think that a skeptic has seen or found something in the text that nobody else has ever seen before, or that it presents a true problem for the believer. I have heard of Christians going out and collecting supposed inconsistencies, and it doesn’t choke their faith at all because they are usually easily explained. Most of the common objections have already been answered clearly, yet the critics continue to raise them as if they are doing any real damage. Simply throwing out random "contradictions" without allowing for a good response is not good academic work and has been shown to be fruitless. One common argument against the Bible that I have heard is the complaint that the Bible contains violence, which the skeptic doesn’t approve of. It is then usually argued that the Bible doesn’t reflect reality. The truth is we live in a fallen world, and the violence talked about in the Bible is accurately showing us the causes and the effects of sin. The fact the scriptures contain such things should bolster our faith in them because they accurately reflect what is real (thus eliminating the second complaint). If the Bible was all roses and cherries then an argument should be made. Simply put, a skeptic cannot have it both ways and say the Bible is unreliable because it reflects reality, then discount scriptures because it doesn’t reflect reality. I have noticed that most accusations boil down to the problem of evil which should be more accurately titled "the problem of the things I don’t personally like". Another set of common critiques are (especially when discussing the Gospels) are that "they have all these differences and therefore must not be accurate". But where there is similarity they claim "they just copied each other and therefore can’t be accurate". The minor differences are expected when an author writes their version of the events, interpreting the meaning, and using their own language. It is a contradiction to say that the Gospels are false because they are both too similar and too different. In fact the amount of difference seen in the Gospels is about what should be expected in circumstances similar to how the Gospels came about. Finally, it seems to me that if we hold that the Scriptures have their origin in God, which even some non-conservatives hold to, then it follows that they will be inerrant. God cannot lie, He is perfect and all-knowing, and He doesn’t fail. If these things are true of a creator God, then we can assume that the words He inspires should follow without error. This may seem like a shallow argument, but when you start to think about the nature of God and His work in the world, inerrancy becomes an obvious conclusion. Further personal reflection on God and His purposes will bolster this argument. Like I said to begin with, it is hard to argue for inerrancy because it is impossible to prove every assertion the Bible makes true, many believe it should be held to as a presupposition (like myself) and that rationality is not possible without it, and there is not many higher authorities than Scripture. But if we hold Jesus’ historical teachings to any weight, and see Christ as an authority, we can follow suit and hold to his view of the inerrant Word. Next we see the church and church leaders have held to inerrancy. Also any attempt to show a biblical problem fails. Finally, if we see that God is good and can’t lie, then His Word should have a similar nature. Unlike other presuppositions, the assumption that Scriptures are our starting point for rationality is not self defeating. I mentioned scientism in a previous article, scientism fails because science cannot prove the foundations for scientism (I never claimed all skeptics follow scientism, it was an example). Relativism is self denying because it is claiming that it is true that there is no truth. Humanism relies on sinful human intellect. Skepticism should be skeptical of itself. And other similar thoughts are all self refuting. Scriptures do not have this problem. As we can look and see, the Scriptures vouch for their own existence, tell us they are accurate, allows for metaphysical realities such as morality and rationality, affirm that truth exists, they are consistent, and that they should be used for a foundation for belief. A Biblical worldview relying on the foundation of an inerrant scripture is the best (possibly only) foundation for a consistent worldview. I spent much time in the beginning of this argument defining what inerrancy is and is not because I find that many of the arguments against it are against a straw man. If Christians know and can define the doctrine with clarity I think we will run into much less opposition, and the true reason for doubting the Bible will become clear: a rebellious and sinful heart. I wish to leave a few books that might be found edifying for study on the doctrine of inerrancy: - Inerrancy, Norm Geisler - When Skeptics Ask, Norm Geisler - When Critics Ask, Norm Geisler - Scripture Alone, James White - The King James Only Controversy, James White - Holy Scripture (3 volume set), King and Webster - The Old Testament Documents, Walter Kaiser - Can We Trust the Gospels?, Mark Roberts The natural response by a skeptic to an article like this is to do one of two things. Either link to websites that have lists of Bible problems or to type some problems themselves (probably copied and pasted from aforementioned websites). I would ask that you do not waste precious web space here because we can find the exact same thing by simply Googling "Bible Contradictions". It is not the intent of this web board to be a place for (yet another) list of said objections. If the reader is interested they can open Google on their own and find the lists and (if they click the next link) probably find the solution. To leave an apparent problem assumes that all Christians are stupid and we have never heard of the problem before. Also, to simply provide mindless lists without a better argument is the job of an "internet troll", which I hope none of us are. Finally, to say that honest Christian apologists do not have answers to these is wrong. There are scores of books written answering these apparent dilemmas (some of the books listed above [not to mention that it is the theologian’s task to know and come to conclusions based on the whole testimony of Scripture and authors of commentaries spend their whole life dealing with the text]), and to simply post these common objections is to show that you are both too lazy and too hard-hearted to search for and allow a solution. Now, this is a humor, but it is really relevant to our discussion so please head over to Tektonics for this: http://www.tektonics.org/parody/fundyath.html God Bless! |
|
|
| It's like a yard stick |
[Mar. 17th, 2008|08:56 pm] |
I was kindly asked to answer (sub-weekly) questions for Kettering University’s Campus Crusade for Christ group (http://www.ketteringcru.com/). A friend of mine attends there and I decided to help him out. I decided to also post my replies here on my blogs. Here is my next question: What is the history of the modern Biblical canon? Since books were selected or ignored by men, how can we be sure of its authority (by extension, why do Paul’s letters hold authority while the Book of Mormon or the Koran do not, since they also were revelations to man)? -------------------------------------------- The key to understanding the canon is to know that "the canon was not developed, it was discovered". This goes for both the Old Testament and the New. Because of this, we can NOT say that we have infallible canon; repeat, we do not have an infallible canon. Only God knows for sure what He has authored, and unless God reveals infallibly what He has inspired we cannot be 100% certain. Now that doesn’t mean that we don’t have great reason to believe what we have is as our canon is right.
This is because God has chosen not to inspire a canon, He has inspired Scriptures. If we understand what the canon is there is less confusion. A canon is simply a list of books, so if God has inspired anything, there is a canon. A canon is the outgrowth of inspiration, not inspiration itself. And since God did not inspire everything, we need to discern what that canon is. Although the following discussion is a historical argument, in the end I will discuss a more theological reason to believe in the canon.
The Old Testament is very aware that the Law is scripture, given by God, and has authority. The Law is defined as the first five books of the Bible (Gen – Deut), but recent studies would actually argue that Joshua may be part of the document as well. That is because when we compare the Bible to other ancient Eastern treatises we see that they share some similarities. The ancient contracts would start off with a history of the two parties, then there is the actual agreement, followed up by the actual follow through of the agreement and any dealings afterwards. In the case of the Law, we see the historical parts of the Law (Gen-Lev), the agreement itself (Lev-Deut), and the follow-up through being Joshua (the people committing to following the Lord and the Lord giving them the land). So the "Law" proper is the first five book, and the full document includes both Joshua and the Law. Although the authorships are not known for the end of Deuteronomy and Joshua, there are several good arguments for Moses being the author of most of the first five books. So since the first six books are seen as one larger document, and was taken by the people of God to be the authoritative word of God. Throughout the rest of the Bible it is clear that the people of God knew that the Law was Scripture.
From that point on the Jews recognized that the Lord was a God who was active in human history and that He does, in fact, inspire some works (the means of inspiration are for a different topic than the canon). Like I mentioned above, they have no sure fire way to know what is inspired and what is not, but rather the congregation of the Jews as a whole pretty much recognized what was inspired after it was written. Some of these things were recognized much later after their writing, some were sooner. Either way the people saw the Scriptures as given by the Lord. We can see this within the Old Testament, specifically Daniel 9:2 where Daniel recognizes Jeremiah’s work as scriptures. Some of the ways they could think that something was canon and some things weren’t was if it had prophecies that came true, it is consistent with previous scriptures, if the author or source was authoritative like a known prophet, king, or priest. These are not fool proof means, but some ways which they could use to recognize scripture.
The Jews were pretty much in agreement with what was and wasn’t inspired until after the Maccabean Revolt (the only real debates were over Esther and the Song of Songs). In fact, they would have agreed that the canon was also closed and prophecy ceased by the Revolt. Even during the time of the Maccabees the Jews realized the Scriptures were completed, this is evidenced actually in the book of Maccabees (1 Mac 9:27, 2 Mac, 15:38-39; thus denying its own inspiration). After which they separated into several camps, the Pharisees that agreed with the full canon and the Sadducees that just followed the Law (five books). The Pharisees, being the majority camp, were in agreement with the Zealots and Qumran sect (Dead Sea, they tended to keep the actual scriptures separate from their other writings) on the issue of the canon. This is seen with the discussion of canon at the council of Jamnia (a Jewish council in the first century to discuss the future of the faith) and the writing of Josephus. Both Jamnia and Josephus agree with the traditional OT canon. So there was a wide agreement amongst the Jews as to what was inspired and what was not. Even Paul would agree with their findings and say that the Jews were responsible for the "oracles of God" (Romans 3:2). So we see that there was wide agreement as to what the Old Testament Scriptures are in Jewish history. They came to this agreement not because God sent them a list with a "golden index", or because a pope or high priest declared a canon. They came to recognition of this because as a body of believers God moved them to recognize His works.
Now, to be honest, the only real debate of the OT canon is with a set of books called the Apocrypha. The Jews NEVER saw the Apocrypha (means "hidden things", also known as "Deuterocanonical" which means "second canon") books as scripture. They did see them as edifying, containing some historical material, and good to read, but never as Scripture. This can be seen in all Jewish Traditions. The early church picked up the Apocrypha much like the Jews did, as helpful and edifying, but not canon. There were some Christians, like Augustine, who accepted the Apocrypha. But this is normally because they did not understand the distinction the Jews made concerning the texts. When Jerome translated the Vulgate he put the Apocrypha outside the rest of the Scriptures. Even Pope Gregory the Great denied the authority of the Apocrypha. It was not until later did the Catholic church agree that these additional books are canonical. It was at the Council of Trent (1546, after the excommunication of Luther) did they add the Apocrypha. That is why Protestants do not have them in their scriptures, because they were not considered inspired by the church at the time of the Reformation. Even Cardinal Cajetan (who tried Luther at his first trial) did not hold to the deuterocanon as inspired. The Apocrypha was added by Catholics almost fifteen hundred years after the apostles, not taken out by Protestants.
One final note on the OT canon is that we see that Jesus and the early Church saw the canon as authoritative. Nowhere did they give us a "golden index", but they quoted from the OT extensively. We can see that there are certain terms used such as "it is written", "as God said", reference to them as "scriptures", etc. that show that they had an idea that what they were quoting was inspired scripture from God. These are formulas they used to reference Scriptures. The New Testament quotes many (but not all) of the OT books as scripture using these formulas. And never once did they give the Apocrypha the level of authority. The apostles and early church, like eluded to above, never held the Apocrypha as inspired, as we can tell by their usage.
We see that the OT was recognized by the people of God, we will see a similar thing in the church concerning the New Testament.
Similarly to the Old Testament we see that the early church quickly recognized the writings that are from God. Peter doesn’t hesitate to give Paul’s writing the authority of Scripture (2 Peter 3:15-16) and nor does Paul hesitate to quote Luke’s writing as authoritative in 1 Tim 5:18. The New Testament Church recognized that God has started giving the prophecy of Scripture again, and that it was of the same nature as the OT scriptures. As a side note, knowing Timothy was written by Paul before AD 62 (Paul’s death), we can place the Gospel of Luke as being written before 62, and being recognized as Scripture. We also know that Luke used other writings to write his Gospel, it is generally accepted that Luke used Mark (Luke 1:1-4), which places at least Mark, Luke, and most likely Acts as being written before AD 62. This flies in the face of anyone who claims that the Gospels were written late and can’t be reliable.
The New Testament church wrote Scripture and knew that some of their writings were inspired by God used to edify the church. This passed down quickly to the apostolic fathers who quoted extensively from the New Testament works. Clement of Rome, writing about 96 AD, gave Paul’s writing and the Gospels a high honor by putting them on par with Scriptures. Ignatius does the same in about 107. There is clear indication in the early church there is a set of writings that are inspired from God. We see that in several of the collections of writings that Hebrews and all of Paul’s writings together in one gatherings, further showing that the people of God were recognizing the Words of God. It is fascinating to see that the early church, before there ever was an official canon, used both the Old and the New Testament as authoritative. That means when fighting heresy, teaching other believers, and planting churches there was not a question as to what the canon was, this all before any official decree of canon.
Now to be fair, since the ancient church did not live in modern society with printers and the internet or fast means of transportation we have to say that not all churches had a full canon. The Egyptian church may not have had the full Bible, and the church in Rome may not have had complete copies of everything. So not everyone in the early church knew of or had the full canon. Because of this there is, naturally, some disagreement to what the canon was. There were New Testament books that were in question, but as the church started sharing more and had discussions and debates there was an agreement to what was canon. Again, we see that the people of God were moved to know the words of God.
The canon was discovered by people who loved God and wanted to know His word. The canon was discovered, not developed. The argument that Constantine decided the canon is not right, we have canon lists that predate Constantine including the one of Athanasius. When the church did come together to form and finalize the canon they also followed certain protocols. Ideas like the book must have apostolic authority (either written by an apostle or a direct disciple of an apostle), it must not contradict other Scriptures and remain consistent with Biblical teaching, they must also have the sense of being inspired (having "thus says the Lord" or true prophecy are clues to inspiration), and church usage (the book must have been used widely and recognized as scripture by a large portion of Christians). Applying these tests to the writings in question (which were overall very few) gave the church a firm foundation for having a solid canon.
If we look through history we see that there is no "golden index" from Heaven, God has not spoke in a thunderous voice, nor has a priest or pope has dogmatically stated what is canonical. The scriptures were recognized by the people of God when moved by the Spirit of God. This does not give us an infallible canon, but the history and knowledge does give us a good foundation for knowing what is canonical.
Theologically speaking, we must recognize that God has a purpose in inspiring Scriptures. He doesn’t do it willy-nilly and lets us to sort it all out. God has sovereignty inspired certain texts for the purpose that He has. The Bible tells us that His words shall not fail, and that they for "teaching, rebuking, correcting, and training in righteousness, so the man of God may be thoroughly equipped for every good work". God has a purpose in His work of inspiration. And that overall purpose is to instruct the church concerning its duties. Romans 15:4 tells us that the scriptures were given for the instruction the people (plural), 1 Cor 10:11 parrots that idea. The Timothy passage quoted above tells us that we can glean "teachings" or doctrines from the scriptures (which are good for the whole church). So God has inspired Scriptures for a reason, and He would fail in that purpose if He allowed a false canon into the church. God doesn’t fail with His purposes, and that includes giving His people scriptures to guide. To say that the canon is wrong, incomplete, or otherwise wrong is to say to God that He has failed in His intention to inspire.
The doctrine of infallibility I not at all damaged by the infallibility of a canon. The idea of infallibility comes from the idea that God inspired the text and God cannot lie. So if we recognize what is inspired, we also recognize it is infallible. Infallibility also only extends to the original autographs of the text, not any extent manuscripts or copies. To argue that the infallibility doctrine is compromised by an infallible canon is to confuse categories.
Is there a closed canon? Can anything be added to the teachings of Scripture? The quick answer is "yes and no". That is because the apostles were aware that this is the final age in which God has planned. Since God has established His church on the given Bible, there is no need for anything to be added since there in nothing more to come. We see this teaching specifically in Jude 3 where Jude states the faith has been "once for all delivered to the saints". There is nothing more for God to reveal, the faith is delivered in finality and there is nothing more to add. The apostles were clear that the next thing to come is Christ’s return, not a new age or a new covenant like the Old Testament looked forward to. We can be sure that what the apostles knew and taught is the totality of our faith. The apostle’s teachings are the foundation of the church (Eph 2:20). Hebrews 1 agrees with this statement by saying that prophecy was from old and the only message left is that of Christ. There can be no newer teachings other than what is derived from the Scriptures. We have a complete revelation in our Bibles today, and anything that comes later is not to be added to the Scriptures and it doesn’t share the same authority of scripture.
Concerning modern revelations like the Quran and the Book of Mormon, they are not from God. Both of these texts came much later and in many areas contradict established scriptural teachings. The Quran denies the divinity of Christ which John 1:1 is so clear about. The Book of Mormon teaches a works based salvation in comparison to the teachings of the Bible that we are saved by grace alone. We see across the board that God has established His truth, and anything that seems to come later is not in accord with what He has said in the past. The canon is closed and God has been gracious to deliver us His message in totality.
In conclusion we should not have any doubt concerning the canon. There was never a pope or priest that made a canon list. God never spoke from heaven or sent down a golden index. Rather the people have God discovered the canon. The prophets, apostles and Christ Himself recognized inspired scriptures. God has a purpose in inspiring and preserving His text. The protestant canon is representative of what God has inspired and we have no reason to believe that God has continued inspiring people since. Although we can’t say we have an infallible canon, there is no real reason to doubt that we have God’s complete revelation in the Bible we have today.
So let us thank God for His revelation, without it we would not know anything of Him. Let us teach the "whole counsel of God" (Acts 20:27), and be thoroughly equipped for what He would have us do.
Addendum:
Concerning the problem with other NT texts, such as the Gnostic Gospels there are a couple quick points. If we cannot trace the Gnostic texts to the teachings of Jesus or the apostles then we have no reason for believing they are for the church. Historically speaking, if Gnosticism is not an early form of the church then we shouldn’t think they are authoritative.
1) The Gnostic texts are clearly later than the New Testament writings. The internal evidence, such as the language used and the philosophy taught, are from a later date. There were certain words and phrases not used in the 1 century that appear in the Gnostic Gospels.
2) The teachings of the Gnostic Gospels are in no way consistent with either the earlier New Testament books or any of the OT books. If Jesus and the apostles were Jews and God doesn’t change then we should recognize that later revelation from God should be consistent with earlier revelation. Gnosticism is a wholly different system and is NOT in anyway consistent with the Jewish God or who Jesus would be.
3) Archeologically speaking we have no reason to believe an early date for any of the Gnostic texts, not even Gnostic Gospel of Thomas. The earliest manuscripts we have for any Gnostic text is late second century. We have earlier manuscripts of the NT writings like a scrap of the Gospel of John dated about 110.
4) The church fathers specifically argued against Gnosticism. We can find a direct relationship between the orthodox church of history and the apostles. The church fathers can easily be traced (in writing and teaching) to the apostolic fathers, who are easily traced to the apostles. The Gnostics share no such lineage, and do not have a same consistent line of teaching that the church shares. The traditions of the NT canon are kept and used to argue against Gnosticism. The Gnostic texts are not reliable either by history or lineage to Jesus and His teachings.
5) Related to 4, the early church argued against the Gnostics… but not until the late second early third century. Since the early church was not aware of the competing faith, what is to say it existed? It seems that the church would fight against Gnosticism if it existed, but since there is no evidence of an early battle, we can assume there wasn’t one. When we argue this point though, we have to understand that full fledged mature Gnosticism with a written library is not the same as proto-gnosticism. Proto-gnosticm can possibly be seen as an enemy of the early church and is possibly what some of the NT authors are writing against. But this proto-gnosticism is more of a Platonism with Jesus imported and is not the full fledged Gnosticism we see much later.
6) Related to 5 and 4 we see that the church has not, in large, accepted any of the Gnostic texts. If the people of God know the words of God then the Gnostic texts are not the words of God.
7) If God has a purpose is preserving His Word for His church, and the Gnostic church disappeared along with the writings for 1500 years then God has failed to keep His Word and His people if the Gnosticism was true. But since God’s plan cannot fail, and He has written His word for his people, we can say that Gnosticism is not the church established by Christ.
Since the later Gnostic texts do not go back to the apostles or Jesus, they are less reliable historically, and are not consistent with other Biblical teachings we can count them out of the canon. Here are some more specifics:
Gospel Thomas
This is the golden boy for Gnostics, if GThom falls then Gnosticism fails to be related to Christ in any real way.
Internal evidence shows that it is not consistent with Biblical teachings, plus the specific language used is second century, not first. There is also no archeological evidence to place the Gospel of Thomas as early enough to have relationship with the teachings of Christ and the apostles.
Further, the fact that the Gospel of Thomas (GThom) quotes all four gospels and other NT writings show that the author has knowledge of all the texts. Because of the limitations present in the early church it was rare, if not impossible, for a single church to have the whole NT. So for GThom to quote extensively from a larger portion of the NT shows it is probably later when there was a better chance of the author having accessibility to more of the NT.
To help place GThom late we look at the Coptic version (which is argued to be earlier than the Greek) and we see that it quote specifically the Coptic version of the New Testament that was not translated until 175 (this is a set date). So GThom, if quoting the Coptic NT, must be later then the Coptic NT, thus later than 175.
The Gospel of Mary
This writing was not even a problem until Dan Brown used it in his fiction.
The Gospel of Mary is not a fully Gnostic text, it related better to proto-gnosticism and was most likely written as an apologetic to allow women in teaching positions. It is dated mid-second century (no debate to this amongst scholars), and the theme was actually to argue against Paul’s rules of who should lead the church. So this writing is not theologically accurate and has no historical backing.
The idea that it teaches that Jesus and Mary were married is also lacking, the Gospel is very fragmentary and to come to the conclusion of their marriage is to make several logical leaps.
Secret Mark
This Gospel is most likely a fraud that was developed in the 20th century. The only manuscript has disappeared and therefore can’t be tested. The person who discovered it, Morton Smith, is a known fraud.
Gospel of Judas
The newest member of the Fake-Gospel family, this one made news in 2006. We have one copy of this that carbon dates to early fourth century, although the original was probably written about the same time as GThom. Irenaus specifically argues against this text and calls it a "fictitious history". There is no real reason to give this any historical or theological weight, and most scholars would agree.
There are more Gnostic texts than these, but they all follow the same pattern. They are anachronistic, inconsistent, and ahistorical. The New Testament canon is what we have for good reason. I would actually say that Gnosticism is a totally different religion than Christianity and should not be considered another flavor or sect of the same faith. |
|
|
| A Pyramid Scheme |
[Mar. 17th, 2008|08:54 pm] |
I was kindly asked to answer (sub-weekly) questions for Kettering University’s Campus Crusade for Christ group (http://www.ketteringcru.com/). A friend of mine attends there and I decided to help him out. I decided to also post my replies here on my blogs. Here is my next question: Did stories like the six-day creation and the world-wide flood take place as depicted in the bible, despite secular claims of their impossibility? With the miraculous coming under increasing fire from multiple directions, how does modern scientific theory relate to biblical inerrancy? -------------------------------------------- (start sarcasm) I appreciate the easy question. My response should be short. (end sarcasm) Now, personally I feel better answering the question about inspiration rather than the scientific questions. I have to admit my weakness in the scientific field and show humility on these issues. I openly admit that my field of study is more theology, philosophy, and apologetics. Not science. So I can answer the questions from a philosophical view. For the science question I can point you to a few good websites with different views, that way you are free to look things up yourself. I do not even have my masters degree in theology yet, let alone have time to work through the science too. Also, most of these things I have not yet also resolved for myself, so I do not feel the need to indoctrinate others. I want to start off by saying that these issues are not a matter of orthodoxy (not the Orthodox Church like the Eastern or Russian Rites, but rather "orthodox" meaning "right belief"). A person who holds to a young earth (several thousand years) should not condemn or think the old earth thinker is any less faithful. Orthodoxy should be clearly defined as to what pertains to our salvation. To me the doctrines that encompass salvation are the Trinity (what God has saved us? [along with all the subsidiary doctrines such as the personhood of the Spirit, Incarnation of Christ, eternal co-existence, etc]), salvation by grace through faith (how are we saved), acceptance of Scriptures (how we have the message of salvation), and Christ’s eminent return (the conclusion of our salvation). It seems to me, outside of these doctrines there is much debate by godly men throughout the history of the church and are not essential to hold in order to be considered "orthodox". I am not saying that there is not truth to these issues, there are; but the differing opinions on these issues are not enough to break fellowship. So let us discuss these things in a brotherly and Christian fashion with love and patience, also with a heart to learn the truth and humility to change our minds if proven wrong. We must agree to disagree if that is the outcome. Now for the fun… At a philosophical level, I am forced to ask if the art known as science has any leg to stand on to critique the foundations of faith. Understanding the history of science actually clears this up. The first serious scientists were Christians because they posited that if God is rational, then His creation would fallow in a rational pattern. So for science to disregard religious belief is to deny its own history. Even a more serious flaw is that many scientists fall into what is called "scientism" (which is the only logical outgrowth from naturalism), which is the belief that the work of science is able to answer every questions and account for every belief. This flaw should be transparent since the idea that "everything can be proven by science" cannot be proven by science! The statement "everything can be proven by science" is NOT a scientific assertion, therefore it fails the test when it is applied to itself, thus being inconsistent and therefore untrue. What then is our foundation for science? In fact the bolt that holds science together is not science, but rather abstract ideas. The scientific method assumes that the world acts in a rational manner, that we have the ability to accurately observe and record the data, that we have the power to process and work through the data, we have the skill to communicate and share the ideas, and that the world is not only rational but also it will repeat itself time and again. There are philosophical assumptions that are unavoidable when thinking scientifically. Science relies on principles of faith to operate. This should not be striking because the oft repeated argument from Christians is "I have faith in God where you have faith in science". But I am trying to bring this to another level, not setup a false dichotomy where you have to accept either God or science, which that shallow argument usually leaves us with. Rather I want to say that believing that God is the foundation for knowledge, gives us the minds and tools to do the work of science, and He has created the world according to rational principles, gives us more of a standing for the art of science than the atheistic scientists. This will be more clear below. A side note, any critical thinker should realize that "testing God" such as measuring miracles and all is not even a possible test. The experimenter assumes that God works according to a closed system (if we pray then God moves, like if we put a dollar in the vending machine we get a drink). God is not a machine. God has freedom. If God knows He is being tested He will not be motivated to oblige to our pitiful attempt. Also, God has NOT said that we believe by miracles, the Jews saw miracles and still didn’t believe (John 12:37). God has laid out the system that we believe by hearing of the Word (Rom 10:17, therefore lets preach the Word!). So even if God did oblige the person attempting to put Him into a test tube, the tester’s sin and hardness of their heart will not allow them to believe anyways. The TAG (transcendental argument for God) is a good argument to show the falsity of naturalism. There are things in the universe that are accepted as fact by most people, the existence of the laws of logic, numbers (not the numerals that represent numbers like the line that makes the numeral 1, but the existence of "oneness"), the existence of minds (not brains, but minds), ideas, morality, etc. Basically, most people agree that there are things in the world that cannot be touched or measured, therefore saying that it is irrational to believe in God because He cannot be touched or measured fails. Plus, how do you touch and measure the principle that everything needs to be touched and measured? We are justified in our belief in God just as the scientist is justified in their belief in rationality. Now all the TAG does is show that transcendentals exist, not really God, or even the Christian God for that manner. So all the argument seemingly does is show that pure naturalism is wrong. But this argument can walk a lot further when you realize that Christianity is the only religion that is congruent, comprehensive, coherent, and consistent. Also the TAG assumes that God has revealed these abstract things. Other beliefs like Islam, Sikhism, Scientology, etc. all suffer from contradictions and problems where the Christian faith does not. Some examples are that both Hinduism and Buddhism (as well as New Ageism) suffer from the critical flaw of reincarnation. In all of these systems assume that reincarnation has happened for eternity, there is no beginning or end. Also they assume that our next life will be based on how we live this one. Then we must ask: who is keeping score to determine our next life? Further, if reincarnation has happened forever then how did the system get out of balance in the first place? Also, if people do bad things to us then these systems say we earned the bad treatment because of a mistake in a previous life, so the person who hurt us is justified in hurting us? There is not foundation for morality, or even justice (since doing bad things to others could actually be doing good by harming someone who deserves it). Reincarnation is a helplessly inconsistent system. Islam suffers from incongruent beliefs. One is that the Koran states that Christians believe that Mary, Jesus’ mother, is part of the Trinity. No Christian has ever made Mary the third person in the Trinity (although there have been petitions for making her the fourth by Catholics). Therefore the Koran talks about Christianity wrong, it doesn’t reflect the reality of how Christians think, and therefore cannot be true since it doesn’t describe the world accurately. I cannot explain every religion here, but you get the point. Only Christianity is consistent, therefore it is the only system that can be true. Furthermore, TAG is also a good match with anthropology. As Descartes and other skeptics have pretty shown is that we cannot be certain of anything, even our memories or sense perception. The problem with saying we can’t be certain is to say that with certainty. We’re certainly uncertain? Another system that fails when it applies to itself. But The skeptical arguments do not lose their weight. How can we know things for certain? How do we have knowledge? If we cannot know anything, and saying such is a contradiction then where do we settle? The only answer we have is that God, the source for all truth, can give us facts, reveal things. Now He does not need to work in supernatural means every time, but He can use the natural world, the gift of our senses, and also divine revelation to give us certainty. A trust in God, specifically a God who has chosen to reveal truths, is the only way to have any certainty. So the foundation for knowledge, is in fact, the Christian God. A perfect God is the only being who can give us perfect certainty. If you undercut the possibility for God to be able to reveal things to His people, then we have absolutely no logically consistent method of knowing we know anything. Proverbs 1:7 is more than a witty comment, it is a philosophical truism. Christians answer the skeptical philosopher by saying "we have certainty because we trust that an all powerful God has the power to reveal things to His people." So we see that we need, just to have any knowledge at all, a God who is able to reveal things to His people. Also a God who can explain abstract concepts, ideas, laws, and the like. We also need a God who can explain morality and relationships. When you look at the options of those types of gods in the world, only one stands out clearly: the LORD. And He has chosen to reveal things to us, and the primary form He has chosen is through the inspiration and preservation of scripture. The Christian God is the only explanation for rationality. Without God we are stuck in either an irrational world, or a world where we cannot be certain of anything. So to make any claims to knowledge is to borrow concepts from the Christian worldview. The only way to show this argument false is to present another system to compete with Christianity, which can’t be done. Now the objection one might here from this is "the Bible doesn’t tell us all things". To which I would agree. But the Bible does tell us quite a bit. We see that memories can be trusted. We see that God is wise, rational, and has created a world that follows the laws of logic. And we see that God has endowed humanity with the tools for communication, observation, and invention (we are made in the image of God [imago dei]). We see that God is able to reveal things, that abstract entities exist, that there is objective morality bound on our hearts, and human beings have intrinsic value. No other system can account for all these facts. So the Bible may not tell us everything, but it does provide a foundation for us to start with, and it tells us that (since we are made in the image of this God) we have the ability to grow in knowledge. So our knowledge of all things rests on a foundational set of facts that can only have its origins in the Christian God. So our "model" for knowledge is an upside down pyramid. The foundations for our beliefs are based on a few facts such as the general trustworthiness of our sense perception, common sense, memory, morality, etc. The Christian should also say that the knowledge of God and what is written on our hearts is just as foundational as these things, if not more so. So the more we learn we add to this pyramid, either by adding it to the very broad top or filling in the holes left behind. The more we learn about God the stronger our foundation for our knowledge will be. The Christian Scriptures (being only second to Christ’s Incarnation and maybe third to the imago dei) is the pinnacle of God’s revelation. And if God is perfect, and wants to reveal things to us, we can trust that His revelation is also perfect. And to deny that revelation is to cut against the grain of the only solid foundation for knowledge (which people do because of their sin). Science relies on the revelation of God, and therefore should not undercut its own foundations. We would be quite foolish to think that an observation by a handful of (sinful) scientific elites is good enough to undermine the necessary revelation of (a perfect) God. So, to answer your question: No, these scientific arguments do not harm my view of Scripture. I still believe in inerrancy and inspiration. There are some people who can argue persuasively for a young earth and a worldwide flood. There are many well meaning Christians who believe in a localized flood and an old earth. These things do not bother me for a moment, although they are interesting questions. Now since we realize that God is the foundation for knowledge. Christians do not need to prove He exists at all. We are justified in believing without evidence for the same reason that most people trust their memory when they think about what they had for breakfast. Our memory, our senses, etc. are all trusted without the need for an argument, so too then God can be trusted without an argument. We do not need to argue or have a perfect apologetic in order to believe. In fact this fits perfect with how Calvinists view salvation, it is not based on our own minds, arguments, or hearts that we come to Christ, but rather by God’s grace Christ comes to us. (The arguments presented above are a combination of many philosophical arguments. Obviously I mentioned the TAG, but there is also "foundationalism", "Reformed Epistemology", "presuppositional apologetics", some anthropology, and other parts of Christian theology.) Now to step away from my philosophical argument for a moment. To me, there is more than enough historical evidence to show the historical reliability of the Bible. Archeology confirms dates, peoples, and locations. Ancient manuscripts validate the transmission and accuracy of the text. What we know about ancient sociology matches perfectly with how the Bible describes the times. The Bible has been reliable on so many things that it is beyond measure. So if we can trust the Bible from Genesis 11 forward, and it is accurate. We should give the text the benefit of the doubt and trust that remaining 1% that may be questionable to our modern sensibilities. God asked the Jews to trust Him because He was the "God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob". Trust God because He has proven faithful to the saints of old. We should do the same, trust God with that uncertain first few chapters because He has proven faithful in everything else. Now, personally, I have not come to any conclusions on these scientific questions. Although if my feet were to the fire I would (at this point) say…. (I retyped the rest of this sentence 3 times with different answers)… I dunno, and I am fine with it! I have faith in God’s revelation, I do not need to know how old the earth is to know God created it. I do not need to know that the flood was local or worldwide to know that God punishes sin. I know I do not hold to macro-evolution (even though early on Christians adopted evolution, it wasn’t until the agenda of secularism was pushed did Christians get angry) and hold to a micro-evolution view. I believe Adam and Eve were real people. But special creation doesn’t necessitate a young earth. So I dunno.. I actually take the Babel story literally because building a tower to heaven just seems like something us prideful humans would try to do. I do know that God is gracious enough to give us His inspired word, wise enough to give us our senses, and creative enough to create us with His image. Without these things we would truly be lost. I am more motivated to learn more about God, and to study His revealed Word, and to take it seriously. For He is the way, the truth, and the life! Here are a few websites that may be interesting (I am not endorsing a specific ministry or view point with these links): .. --> m --> http://www.godandscience.org/.. --> m --> - Old Earth arguments .. --> m --> http://www.biblicalarchaeology.org/.. --> m --> - Bible Archeology .. --> m --> http://www.answersingenesis.org/.. --> m --> - Young Earth arguments |
|
|
| Jeckle & Hyde |
[Mar. 17th, 2008|08:53 pm] |
I was kindly asked to answer (sub-weekly) questions for Kettering University’s Campus Crusade for Christ group (http://www.ketteringcru.com/). A friend of mine attends there and I decided to help him out. I decided to also post my replies here on my blogs. Here is my second question: The God Yahweh in the OT and God the Father of the NT seem to have radically different ways of dealing with people. Can the ethnic cleansing conducted by the Israelites be justified? Is this the same God? Why the dramatic change? -------------------------------------------- This should not be too hard. I simply disagree with the premise straight up. I do not see any difference between the OT God and the NT God. Look at Acts 5 when God struck down Ananias and Sapphira. Look at God’s awesome grace in David’s life after his sin. The problem is with our perception and assumptions. The New Testament is made up mostly of letters to other believers. The Old Testament is made up of historical narrative of God’s dealing with His people. So the content is different, the intent is different, the method is different, but the message is the same. God punishes sin, and you need to repent and believe in Him to be saved. Some of the specifics I can talk about here. It was not ethnic cleansing God did, God is justified in punishing sin. Look at Gen 15:16 to see why God allowed Israel to do overtake the Holy Land with violence. At the same time, God spared Rahab. This was not an act of immoral ethnic cleansing, it was punishment for sin and God establishing His nation to bring about the Messiah. Also, nowhere is taking over land with force prescribed as a normative for the life of a believer. In fact, read the Law and see how God wants His people to treat aliens. (Ex 22:21) Look at the cross and how God gave the punishment for us to Christ. The cat-with-nine-tails, the beating, the crown of thorns, the whipping, the spear in the side, the taunting, the crucifixion, etc. God is still a God of justice in the New Testament. Plus the New Testament has a fuller view of Hell, how can we compare the temporal punishment of war with the knowledge of the eternal punishment of Hell. Is the God of the New Testament really just a God of love like the question implies? How about how God treated believers who took communion with the false motives in 1 Cor 11? There is punishment in the New Testament as well. Is there really a difference? I think upon further investigation this is not a real problem. God hates sin and is always justified in punishing it. The same God is also gracious and patient, showing love to those who repent and believe. Why should we be surprised when God decides to act out of His Holiness and punish sin? Why are we confused when God decides to refine His children with fire? We are all sinful and all deserving of judgment. In fact, this is one of the issues of "pop Christianity" I have. We see God as more of a hippie, with free and promiscuous love. When modern evangelicals think of God they think of a fluffy God with a love like Valentine’s day with candy and cards. Being saved is being shot with cupid’s arrow. This is evidenced with T-Shirts like "Jesus is my Homeboy" and worship songs that sound more like tunes written by Michael Bolton. If we keep a proper biblical perspective of who God is, we would not think of the New Testament God as different than the Old. When we think of God we should think of a king, the master of the universe. And we are all transgressors of His law. The love He bestows on us is an intimate and personal love, no doubt, but it is still within the context of Him being God and us being created humans. If we can somehow maintain that God is righteous and Holy and is our creator we will not think that there are two Gods, one of love and one of power. But rather there is one God of love and power. I love Romans 9. It teaches that God is sovereign in His grace. But furthermore that God is glorified in His punishment of sin. For the wicked we see His justice, His righteousness, and His power. This should give us a real fear for God. For the saved we see love, grace, patience and mercy. This should give us a heart of thanksgiving. We can see the fullness of God without seeing contradiction (Ex 20:20). Let me finish this with a link to a James White video, who is a Reformed Apologist whom I respect: http://www.aomin.org/aoblog/index.php?itemid=2509 |
|
|
| Oh the Humanity! |
[Mar. 17th, 2008|08:50 pm] |
I was kindly asked to answer (sub-weekly) questions for Kettering University’s Campus Crusade for Christ group (http://www.ketteringcru.com/). A friend of mine attends there and I decided to help him out. I decided to also post my replies here on my blogs.Here is my first question: Is it theoretically possible for a human being ( you or I) to live a heretofore totally sinless life? -------------------------------------------- Now this is a multi-leveled question. And, like most issues, there have been many answers to this question. Logically, it is POSSIBLE to not sin, since sin is not a necessary attribute to humanness. We can look at Christ as being human and sinless, as well as Adam and Eve before the fall. Also, a sinless resurrected or heavenly state is the hope for Christians. So it is possible that humans do not sin. being human does not necessitate us to sin.
Now, if you have a Biblical view of humanity then I will say that it is so unlikely it is impossible for humans to not sin. We are so dirty, our wills, minds, and flesh are so corrupt that we sin without even knowing it! So no, humans can not live life sinless from here on forward (until we are in heaven or resurrected). John writes "for those who think they are without sin are lying to themselves". So being a fallen human makes it so we will without a doubt sin.
Now John Wesley had an idea of "Christian Perfectionism", which he had not clearly defined. Some think this is to be just as you say, living without sin; others think it is to be living with sin, but no intentional sin; yet others just think it is to reach a point in your spiritual life that you are really really blessed; Pentecostals reinterpret it to be baptized by the Spirit (usually evidenced by tongues blabbering or other gifts).
One of the major problems of Wesley’s perfectionism is that it required the work of man to push God’s hand into grace. I feel it is a Biblical model that it is by grace that God blesses us at all. So we can not work to any level to a new state, calling it perfectionism or spirit baptism or whatever. There is no promise in Scripture for God to make us perfect until we are resurrected. A proper and humble view of ourselves should make us always aware of what we need to work on, being a human in the line of the fallen Adam we are totally corrupt.
This should not make us want to give up in our struggle against sin. Even if perfectionism is not possible, that doesn’t mean that we can not work by God’s grace to become more Christlike, to be a better witness in the world, and to glorify God with our bodies.
Recognizing the extent of our sin, and the impossibility of being perfect keeps us humble and striving forward. We should be motivated to become more Christlike. This is not because it is required to act perfect before we are saved, but rather because we are a new creation! We are born again! Since the old has died and the new has come we should want to behave in accordance to how God has graced us. It is now against our nature to want to sin. What a salvation that is!
It is also fascinating to think that God has saved us not from Hell, but Jesus died to save us from sin! Most Christians hold that God saved us from the pits of torment, which is true but only by consequence. The death on the cross was to pay for sins, we are saved from sins, and as such we are spared from Hell. Why should we want to spit in the face of our salvation by sinning?
There is also an aspect where since we are so thankful for God, His revelation, and His salvation that we would want to honor Him by not sinning.
Now, to realize the extent of our sin and how disgusting we actually are is to then recognize how graceful and loving God is. No matter how ugly humanity has gotten, God has still decided to save! God is love truly, especially since we do not deserve anything form Him! Amen!
-------------------------------------------- I was given an immediate follow-up on this question: How do you respond to Christ’s command, then, in Mat 5:48? Does Christ give us commands he knows are impossible for us to fulfill? Or is he pointing the disciples and others towards an apparently irresolvable paradox?
-------------------------------------------- Well with that Matt 5:48, the context is looking at how we treat others and love our enemies. So that "be perfect" (Greek ’telios’, which can also mean ’mature’, ’complete’, ’perfect’, etc.) is literally what is says, but it context it is referring to how we treat others (look at the parallel in Luke 6:36 and the word that Luke used to explain what he understood Christ to be saying: ’be merciful’). The command to be perfect comes after a sermon on how God shows grace to the righteous and wicked alike (sending sun and rain to both parties, this doctrine is called ’common grace’).
But just because God commands something that doesn’t make it possible! In fact the impossibility to fulfill the law is why Christ had to come (Gal 2:21). It is impossible (like I talked about last time) for us to fulfill the law. We are commanded to be perfect, but it is because of our shortcoming, our filthy sin, that we can’t.
The fact we are so dirty and disgusting with sin we can see the greatness of God’s mercy and the extent of His love! What grace which has been bestowed upon us!
|
|
|
| There was a star, a manger, some kings... |
[Dec. 26th, 2007|12:15 am] |
Chances are many people who read this are in one of two camps. One camp are the Christians who would generally agree with my worldview (although not the exact details such as tongues, etc.) and non-Christians who most likely think my conversion to the faith was either a brain washing or something of the like. To both groups I want to send a Christmas gift. As many of you (especially the Church goers) we need to reflect on Christmas day. At church we hear about the wiseman, the shepards, and the little drummer boy. These stories are all well and good, and have thier place. They are also accurate in the areas they follow Scripture. But lets reflect on what really happened over 2000 years around the time of Christmas. We can discuss the veracity of the December date, or the number of kings some other time. I want to remind folks that Christmas is about miracles. That this is a miraculous time of year and we should not get swept up in the commercialism. But lets go even beyond all of that. This is also not a blog against the "Santa" part of Christmas. God (the creator and architect of all things, the ulitmate power, our source for life, morality, knowledge, and salvation, the king of kings and the Lord of Lords, the timeless, eternal, all powerful, all knowing being) made His way INTO the world He created. The Creator entered into the creation. The Eternal Word took on Flesh. The second person of the Trinity lived among us. This should give us pause. When we think about Christmas we think about (as Talladega Nights puts it) "lil baby Jesus". The innocent baby sleeping harmlessly in a manger. We do not recall that this little human is also the Prince of Peace. It seems that we forget about why Christmas was celebrated because of this unique occurance: The Incarnation. Also, this the perfectly good and HOLY God. He entered into.. rather BROKE INTO... a dirty and sinful world. He HUMBLED Himself to enter into this fallen world, living among the sons of Adam for over thirty years. He was a lowly carpenter, born into a dirty manger, to be beaten and crucified. He became man, with all the temptations and pain that the rest of us feel. Christians seem to get a stigma of being lazy, or blind faith, or unintellectual. In fact if you ask the average Christian how Jesus was both man and God, they would not even know where to begin. Let us be above such shallow thinking, let us go beyond the childhood story of the star and the angels, and remember the unique and powerful event. Us Christians should show the world we are not brain washed. Let us Christians show the non-believers the importance of God's highest revelation, Jesus Christ. So instead of reading the Gospel of Luke this Holiday season, lets instead read the first chapter of John and Phillipeans chapter two and remember the gracious Lord who made Himself a lowly servant in the world He is the King of. |
|
|
| Tongue Tied and Twisted |
[Jul. 10th, 2007|12:09 am] |
Intro This is a sensitive issue, and with this post I am bound to upset at least 49% of my Christian friends, provoke thought in 49%, and the other 2% will either tie a noose with my name on it or want to buy me dinner. No matter how you take it, and what you want to do to me, we have to remember that this is a secondary issue. Meaning that a person who disagrees with me is still Christian and will still worship with me in Heaven, but I feel are just wrong on this issue.
Normally, when talking about the gift of tongues you get into the discussion on cessationism and continuationism. Cessastionism means that certain gifts ceased after the death of the last Apostle. Continuationism claims that God’s plan and purpose have not changed, so neither does His methods, so gifts continue.
Now I do not want to debate cessationism in this article... but rather look at one aspect of it... the gift of tongues. I have heard prayer in tongues, I have had people pray over me in tongues, many of my friends do pray in tongues, I think some have prayed for me to receive tongues, heck... I even wanted the gift during my Greek and Hebrew classes! I think for this it is more important to ask what Biblical tongues are rather than asking if they have ceased. We can talk about cessationism/contunuationism later, but I am more interested in what tongues actually are, and (assuming some level of continuationism) how they should be treated in the church.
Corinthian Tongues, Intro The core texts for this are in Acts 2, 10-11, 19 and 1 Corinthians 12-14. Paul had a full discussion on the issue in 1 Corinthians, so we will deal primarily with that. But first lemme get some facts out of the way:
-The book of 1 Corinthians is written as a rebuke to the church in Corinth. Paul is writing to fix things, not to compliment. The tone itself is corrective. Corinth, up to this point in the letter, has been rebuked of having clique type groups, abusing the Eucharist, dragging each other to court, and tolerating sexual immorality. After this, Paul goes on to discuss eschatology and how the Gospel is of first priority. Paul wants to fix these things in the church, not endorse their current ways. It seems to me it is the same for this issue. -1 Corinthians is a “one sided phone call”. Meaning that you are only hearing what Paul is saying, we are not seeing the church in Corinth, nor do we hear what they say to Paul. -The letter is originally written in Greek, not English, so some parts get lost in translation. -With those things in mind we have to play detective to see what is being said by Paul. -The word tongue is equal to the Greek glossa, which can simply mean “language”. So you have to understand that the term “speaking in tongues” could simply mean “speaking in a language”, not ecstatic utterances necessarily. -Also, to be more technical, we can understand the word “prophecy” in two ways. Both simply mean “to speak for God”. One is to understand it as in someone who is given new revelation, a new word from God. The other is to just declare what God has already said, to teach. It is best to understand, in this context of 1 Cor. 14 that prophecy is simply teachings, not new revelation.
Part of this detective work is separating out what Paul is saying in this conversation. In the Greek you can more easily tell the difference in language parts. In Greek, you have imperatives, which are commands (it is imperative that you do this or that…). You also have indicatives which say the way something is or is not (I am indicating something). Then you have interrogatives which are questions (Interrogate him). Only the interrogatives look different because in English we have a question mark (“?”). This is important to keep in mind. Paul also uses rhetoric with his interrogatives, meaning he asks a question knowing the answer. It would be like me saying “Don’t you know that this sentence is rhetoric?” (obviously yes, you do, I just told you, plus it sounds rhetorical).
Now, unlike commands (imperatives), indicatives can have two meanings, either positive or negative. Take this statement as an example: “You have a nice big house with nice furniture and dirty laundry all over the place”. All parts of that sentence are indicating a truth, the house, the furniture, and the smelly socks. Now what happens if I amend that sentence by adding “Put the clothes in the hamper.” Now all of the sudden, because of the imperative to put the clothes away, we can tell what is good or bad. The big house and furniture are not being corrected, but the laundry is. So the problem is not the house or coffee tables, but the skivvies on the door handle. This method of reading the text is helpful.
Until recently I have not found any exegesis (reading of the text) that deals with the whole passage. Both sides have picked and chosen which parts of the passage to magnify over others. Also, most methods of reading result in a contradiction. They affirm two things that oppose each other, emphasizing the one they want. Applying the type of corrective thinking used on the messy house example to the text of 1 Corinthians 14 really helps me understand the text and not leave any statements Paul wrote out of the discussion. I can understand the whole chapter without contradiction.
We know that the imperatives are what Paul wants, his commands, we know that they are good. So we should interpret the indicatives with the imperatives in mind. Also, the rhetoric lets us know what Paul is thinking, based on the question and answers. The imperatives are clear, and all other things should be interpreted in light of the imperatives.
Corinthians Tongue, part 2 Let’s apply this methodology to 1 Corinthians 14; it can account for every passage in the text, without any contradictions:
Here are all the imperatives and rhetoric: Follow the way of love, seek prophecy (1) Seek gifts that build up the church (12) Anyone who speaks in tongues should have an interpretation (13) Tongues are no good unless it teaches (6) Indistinct speaking is as good as indistinct music (7) Incoherent speak cannot call to battle (8) Nobody can understand you unless you use intelligible words (9) So what shall I do? I will pray and sing with both spirit and mind (15) If nobody understands you, they cannot say “Amen”. (16) Unbelievers will think you are crazy if everyone speaks in tongues (23)
So now let us interpret the rest of the passage with this in mind, basically the indicatives. Remember, both the statements on the large house and pit stained shirts are statements of fact, only the ones that are not corrected (big house, nice couches) are positive. That means we should do away with the negative.
The indicatives are: Speaking in tongues is talking to God (2) Prophecy encourages all (3) Tongues edify the speaker, not the church (4) Paul would like all to speak in tongues, but prophecy is better (5, 6) Unintelligible words are speaking into the air (9) There are many languages in the world, none are without meaning (10) If I do not understand the talk, we are foreigners (11) Tongues praying is mindless (14) Tongues are not edifying (17) Paul is happy that he speaks tongues more than anyone (18) But in church Paul would rather be able to be heard (19) Tongues are for the unbeliever, prophecy for the believer (22) Prophecy leads to repentance (25-26)
The problem with all the indicatives above is that they contradict each other, this is what leads to all the confusion in the interpretation of the passage (see 4 and 22, 22 and 23, 10 and 14). Now, let’s look at these passages in light of the context and imperatives.
Verse 2 has the idea that those who speak in tongues are speaking to God; Paul corrects this in verse 6.
Verse 3, 5 and 6 says teaching encourages all, this fits the imperatives. Verse 5 should be understood (naturally) that Paul is saying “I wish all would speak in tongues [correctly]”, for he would not admonish people to do things wrongly.
Paul says tongues edify the speaker (4), but commands us to seek gifts that build up the church (12) and tongues are useless unless they teach (6).
Incoherent words are speaking in the air (9) is corrected by the same verse. If the talk cannot be understood, the people cannot relate (11). Verse 16 says they need to understand to say Amen
Tongues do not edify (17) is in contrast to verse 12.
Paul would rather be heard while in the church so he can teach (19) matches the imperatives.
Tongues are for the unbeliever (22) matches verse 23 which states that unbelievers will think those who speak in tongues are crazy.
Some use verse 23 as an example of persecutions, like “See, they think we are nuts, but we are not because this is from God. We are persecuted!” When Paul is really saying, “New people in the church will think you are crazy and will not come back, you are being unloving and mindless.”
Following this methodology leads me to the conclusion that Paul is clearly saying mindless incoherent speech is not what God has in mind. We can be certain of the imperatives and the rhetoric, and need to translate the rest of the passage in that way. Therefore Paul was trying to end the mindless speech being done at Corinth, this is never what the Spirit had in mind for the gift.
There are two verses I did not mention above, they are 10 and 18. Verse 10 states “Undoubtedly there are all sorts of languages in the world, yet none of them is without meaning”. What is interesting with this verse here is that Paul use the words “languages” (from the Greek “geny phonon” or “kinds of sounds”) instead of “tongue” (Greek: “glossa”). Then says we should seek gifts that edify, he is directly saying that “kinds of sound” or languages (that have meaning), are to be pursued, not incoherent speech.
With verse 18, he is thankful for his gifts. I do not know and cannot tell, but I wonder if this is a dig at the church in Corinth, saying he can do it, but chooses not to? Another interesting part of this verse is the Greek “mallon glossias” (more tongues) can simply mean he speaks in “more languages” than those at Corinth (the GWT, WEB, and WBS translations agree with this meaning). Which would make sense if Paul knew both the ancient Israeli languages and modern languages (2 Hebrews, Aramaic, 2 Greeks, Latin, maybe Egyptian, Syriac and other ancient languages) since he was the Apostle to the gentiles. This also fits the context of verse 16 and 17 when it is arguing that human languages are more effective.
Corinthians Tongues, conclusion The church in Corinth was speaking words without meaning. That is the problem, they were edifying themselves, not teaching others, scaring possible converts away, and this was seen as unloving and mindless. The ecstatic utterances, or incoherent speech (or what I have affectionately come to call “blah blah” or “blabber”) is what Paul is rebuking. When he says tongues are good it is to edify others, not to use as a private prayer language – but tongues is for the unbeliever.
Now this is where it gets interesting… How can incoherent speech be for unbelievers? Unbelievers cannot have spiritual gifts, they can’t have the gift of interpretation. So the language, that is meant to draw unbelievers without gifts, HAS TO BE A HUMAN LANGUAGE understood by the unregenerate. This rules out, completely, mindless personal speech done at Corinth, or even ecstatic speech done publicly. The gift of interpretation, to remain consistent, is simply to understand human languages not previously known for believers.
This matches perfectly with Acts 2 when it is clear that the gift of tongues is of human languages spoken with the intent to reach the lost who are fluent in other dialects. Paul is telling the church at Corinth that the true gift of tongues should be encouraged, where the personal mindless abuses should be put out. Acts 10 and 19 should be read and understood in light of Acts 2, to keep the same context. There is nothing in either occurrence that deserves a different understanding than Acts 2 understanding of human languages.
Paul concludes by saying that we should not prohibit it… I think in light of what we see, what Paul is saying is that we should not prohibit the appropriate use of the gift, but end any abuse of it. In fact, it can be argued that Paul has to put “do not forbid speaking in tongues” (39) because all the verses before it are seemingly a harsh declaration to end the practice. Everything up to this point is Paul rebuking tongues! So now he is making sure the corrective is there, by saying that we should not forbid the appropriate use of it.
Other tongues Other proof texts used for the tongues issue is Romans 8 and the “groaning that words cannot understand”. It seems to me, keeping the verse in context, that the groaning, which is being done by all of creation (including trees, rocks, dirt, etc.) is a yearning for salvation. The saved person should have the same desire, to see salvation. What is interesting is that all the objects listed above (trees, rocks, dirt, etc.) make no noise at all (and are still part of creation). But more conclusively is that the Spirit groans inwardly (v 8:23), not outwardly. This is not to make a noise, but to remind believers that our hope is heaven, and current suffering is nothing compared to the glory of salvation (18-19, the intro to this section). This is not even talking about tongues and it would not be responsible to read tongues into this passage. Rather we should be made aware that we live in a fallen world, but encouraged to persevere because out hope is in Heaven, and it is coming!
The next proof text is 1 Cor. 13:1. “The tongues of angels”. This can actually be turned for the use of the person who does not agree with incoherent speech. First of all, in ALL accounts (even Isaiah 6 when the angels are directly worshipping God) of angelic speech is in human languages. Mary’s talk with the angels, those at Sodom, Joshua’s meeting, the sheep herders, etc. are all spoken in the common human language. If you read the Corinthians passage in context, Paul is saying the same thing he says in chapter 14, speech is to edify people, prophecy can discern knowledge, tongues are like bad instruments if not used to edify.
An oft quoted passage by tongues advocates is 1 Thessalonians 5:19-22, and similar passages about “quenching the Spirit”. Since none of these passages are in context of tongues, it is only assuming that “quenching the Spirit” means limiting tongues. In order for this argument to work, you have to assume that incoherent speech are from the Spirit, which I am arguing they are not. So I agree with the caveat to not stop the Spirit from moving, I just do not think ecstatic speech is from the Spirit, and to say they are using these passages is circular reasoning.
Most other proof texts are simply references to where it says to “pray in the Spirit” (Eph 6:18, Jude 20). It is circular reasoning to use this as a proof text for tongues because you are assuming that “praying in the Spirit” has to be tongues, when there is not such evidence.
There is no biblical evidence to support either incoherent speech or a private prayer language. In fact this is what Paul is speaking against.
To further cap this, Paul, in 1 Cor. 14, quotes a passage from Isaiah 28:11. This passage in Isaiah is used as a warning to the Jews that a foreign nation will invade the land if they do not follow God. The invaders will not speak Hebrew. This even goes back to the Law where in Deuteronomy 21 the first warning is given. No matter how you slice these passages two things are clear. One is that strange tongues and languages are understood traditionally by Jews (such as Paul) as warnings, not blessings. Every occurrence of “tongues that could not be understood” is negative (look at the Tower of Babel, it was a punishment). All uses of “strange tongues” in the Old Testament are in reference to foreign human languages, not mindless speech. Paul’s use of this scripture simply reaffirms his argument against the use of languages not understood by anyone.
History of Tongues So, where did this practice come from? Why did Corinthians do this? We know that the Corinthian Church is a Las Vegas of the Biblical times. Prostitution, gambling, violence, etc. were all a regular part of the scene there. And that is because their location was perfect; they were on a river and had access to transportation. One popular attraction was all the temples in Corinth, you could pretty much go there and worship any ancient god you desired, especially the popular cult-like “mystery religions” (including Delphi, Mithras, Isis, Osiris, Dionysus, Attis, and Atnis which all had a tongues component). These mystery cults loved tongues because of the feeling of ecstasy produced by the practice. They thought they were communing with the gods when they entered the trance state, while doing tongues. The incoming pagans brought this practice into the church with them.
This is not a baseless accusation. We see Paul actually use terminology of the mystery cults to combat their influence on the Corinthian church. There is internal evidence that this is what Paul was debating against. In fact the 1 Corinthians 13:1 reference to tongues of angels (this does not contradict my statements above, Paul is using language used by the cults and Christianizing them), and the use of the cymbals and gongs in mystery religions are possible allusions to the cults. Also, the wording in 1 Corinthians 2 about the spiritual and unspiritual man are similar to the comparison the mystery cults used to reference to those inside and outside the cult. And finally he uses the term “mysteries” in the opening to chapter 14 while talking about the wrong use of tongues and how they self-edify.
I am not using the idea of the mystery cults as part of the main argument because there is enough exegetical internal evidence that it is not needed. Rather I am concluding that Corinth was influenced by mystery religions based on my reading of the scripture and understanding of the culture. I say this so I am not accused of making a blanket and slanderous accusation of just saying that all tongues speakers are pagans. Rather I am saying that the evidence leads me to the conclusion that Corinth tongue speakers are influenced by the cultic.
One factor is up for debate, and that is if the practice of tongues and other gifts continued after the death of the apostles. Most historians agree that these gifts did cease after the finishing of the New Testament, but more recent studies are challenging this view. I have not done a full in-depth study on this, so I cannot comment. Plus, that argument would fit better for the cessationist/continuationist discussion.
So where do we get tongues from today? There are two primary points of history, two revivals and two primary people. The first is Charles Parham. He was Methodist in his theology and believed in a “second blessing” (Wesley’s perfectionism), he also apparently obtained from BH Irwin the idea that there is third blessing, which Irwin taught was “baptism of fire” (a feeling of fire or electricity over the body). Parham had a party on New Year’s Eve 1900, right before the new millennium at the Bethel Bible College in Topeka Kansas. As the pastor of the event, he led a Bible Study on Acts that night. One of his students, Agnes Ozman, wanted to receive the second blessing so she asked Parham to pray for her. During the prayer she started speaking incoherent languages (which they thought was Chinese at the time, but later found it wasn’t). The students rationalized this as her receiving the second blessing, and tied it to the study they did that night on Acts, and the gift of tongues. (It is possible it was also just her getting wrapped up in the moment, supposedly receiving a new blessing, new years, party, influenced wrongly by the Bible Study, etc. could have led easily into the trance-like state needed).
Since it was a Bible College, these students went off and started their own ministries. The pastor at Azusa Street, WJ Seymour, was a student of Parham’s when he taught in Houston. Seymour moved to Los Angeles and was the pastor of a church there. He started teaching to his congregation tongues theology. During one of the revivals tongue speaking broke out like never before (leave it to LA to be ecstatic). Azusa Street Revival is where almost every Pentecostal claims roots. Over time as the members moved away from the church and start impacting other areas the practice and theology grew... the start of the Pentecostal movement.
The Theology of Tongues Although some doctrinal, practical, and moral issues did not allow for continued fellowship between Parham and Seymour, they both taught that this second blessing is evidenced by tongues speaking, and those who did not speak in tongues did not have the Spirit. This teaching is still prevalent today in many Pentecostal circles, although many do not say that you need tongues to be saved, they still say that you are not operating in the fullness of the Spirit if you do not practice this gift. This teaching sometimes creates an “insider/outsider” point of view. In fact, someone I am very close to at one point accused me of not being spiritual enough because I do not participate in the blabbering. Even if this person’s accusation is true and I am not spiritual enough, it is because of sin and lack of time in the Word or prayer, not because I do not go mindless and speak incoherently. Tongues are not one of the Fruits of the Spirit (see Galatians 5:22-3), and there is no biblical warrant for condemning others for which gifts they do and do not possess.
Others today depend on the evidence of tongues to assure them of their salvation. This is not how one should be assured of grace. Romans 8 teaches that we can be assured of our salvation because of the Spirit in our lives and how it reminds of us God’s promise to save the faithful. Tongues is not an assurance to salvation, and if they are treated as such you are not trusting God’s grace to save you. This argument, that salvation is assured because of tongues, is faulty also because tongues are not unique to Christianity. Besides the fore-mentioned cults there are many other religions that speak in tongues as well. Mormons, Jehovah’s Witnesses, Eskimos, Tibetan Monks, Montanists, and Islam all speak in tongues, to name a few. There are ancient clay tablets dating to 1500 BC that evidence tongues outside a Christian context. Tongues are not an assurance of grace, nor are unique to the Christian religion.
The biggest problem I see with incoherent tongues, besides that Paul denounces them in 1 Corinthians, is that the groups that participate in it have to build a special theology to support it. I am not counting the above two problems (tongues as an assurance of faith and creating two levels of spirituality), but they form a whole doctrine of what it means to be “baptized in the Spirit”. John Wesley taught that a Christian can receive a second spiritual baptism, and when this happens the person is able to be “perfect” (this has several interpretations ranging from not sinning anymore to being fully in God’s will and not intentionally sinning). This perfectionism is seen as a second work of grace from the Holy Spirit after the initial work of repentance and faith. Similarly, Pentecostals have formed a theology that being “baptized in the Spirit” is this second work of grace, and is evidenced by tongues and other gifts. They use the supporting texts in the Gospels and in Acts. In the Gospels, John the Baptist predicted Jesus’ ministry by saying that he will baptize with the Spirit and with fire. The actual prophecy, in completeness, is saying the being baptized with the Spirit is to be saved and being baptized with fire is to be judged. This can be seen by understanding the parable in the following verse. In Acts, it appears twice. The Acts 1 verse is the prophecy of the beginning of the church and the coming of the Spirit at its inauguration, this does not necessitate tongues have to follow in this baptism. Also, in the Acts 11 passage the term “baptized with the Holy Spirit” appears (actually just quoting John), but the term is paralleled by God granting salvation to people in the next couple verses. And finally we have the clearest definition of “Spirit Baptism” is actually in 1 Corinthians 12 verse 13, where Paul is arguing for unity in the Church and says “we all have been baptized by one Spirit into one body”. Meaning that salvation and entering into the Christian body is being baptized by the Spirit, not a second work of grace. Finally, all three occurrences of tongues speaking in Acts happens at salvation, not by a second work of grace post-conversion. Plus there are saved people in Acts who never are said to speak in tongues. Pentecostals have to invent theology and re-define terms to support their beliefs when the Bible clearly teaches something else. You can still believe in tongues, and maybe even as a second work of grace, but there is no real biblical support for it, and you should not redefine terms like “baptism of the Spirit” in order to sound biblical.
The Philosophy of Tongues Now I am going outside the bounds of Scripture to defend my position on tongues. Christian Theology will be used, and my argument will stem from the worldview and remain consistent with what I argued above. But there are a few things that should be noted in this discussion that are not talked about within the text itself.
All attempts to verify and justify tongues objectively have failed. There have been tests where the tongues speaker would give speech, then the interpretation would be one thing. Later on a recording of the same tongue would be played back, even to the same interpreter, and the translation would be different. And the tongue speaker, asked to repeat the message are not able to nor can they recognize the recording of themselves, and when asked they cannot interpret their own tongue. In all accounts of studied ecstatic speech, it has not been objectively verified.
Furthermore, languages can be distinguished from incoherent speech because all protocols of communications have patterns. Linguists have cracked ancient languages because of discovered patterns. Even communication on the internet has a common protocol (TCP-IP) that works in a patterned way. When studying tongues, there is no discernable pattern that is common among all languages. There is no apparent grammar, syntax, or words even when you look at the message of the same tongue speaker. Even when compared to the interpretations, there is no apparent match up like what we see on the Rosetta Stone. When listening to the tongue and to the interpretation, the sound made for “God” was not located in a place in the tongue when it was repeated. If it were a tongue of angels, then you would hope there was protocol, but there isn’t.
The last “scientific” line of reasoning is the latest, which is that tongue speakers had their brain activity monitored while speaking in tongues. As Paul predicts, it is “mindless”. The frontal lobes of the brain shut down while speaking in tongues, while the language center fires up. When actually communicating in a known language the frontal lobe is just as active as the language center. This also matches testimonies of people who start speaking in tongues, they claim that they should “not think, just speak” or “it just happened when I was not thinking about it”. Also, the environment if others are speaking in ecstatic languages would apply peer pressure to start. And if there is a large group of mindless speakers, then it would also make sense that people would join because of “group mentality”. If everyone else around you is acting mindless, it would follow that you would feel pressured to do so as well. Also, there is a level of hypnosis that is involved. It is also common for testimonies to include people obtaining the gift right before bed, and fatigue and near sleep does tricky things to your mind. Obviously, the more you practice this, the easier it gets to train your brain to enter into that state of mindless vocalization. It is to literally induce a trance-like state, and since the frontal lobes are “off” then it seems like it is out of the person’s control (they just prescribe the action to God).
What is being experienced then? Good question. I cannot say for sure, and it probably differs from instance to instance, what is happening to the person. I see that there are three possibilities for ecstatic speech.
- Inspired by demonic/Satanic power. (Matt 24:24)
- A trance type state in the brain that seems like a religious experience, even though it is natural (mindless, 1 Cor 14:14).
- A self-induced blabbering that is knowingly not from God and done for many reasons.
As for other religions, it is more certainly not from God. They could be from any of the three listed above. Since unbelievers are not protected by the Holy Spirit it can be self-deception, the hypnotic state, or even from some spiritual force which is not God. The “miracle” could be used by the demonic forces to keep the person in the cult where they practice and continue deceiving them and other around them. That is the greatest goal of Satan, to keep people deceived and away from God. That is one reason why the wicked prosper sometimes, so they do not truly seek for God because they are content in the world.
I believe that Christian Theology teaches that a believer cannot be possessed by a demon, although they can be externally influenced. Also, most tongue speakers I know are honest and God fearing people. So I conclude that Christians who speak in incoherent languages are most likely in a hypnotized or trance like state that feels like God is truly controlling their mind. There are those who knowingly just blabber to “fit in” or establish authority, these people are either guilty of deception or guilty of just wanting to fit in. Some theologians say that all tongues speaking is demonic or false, but to me it seems honest Christians are innocent of this deception.
Conclusion Wow, another long post… Anyways. If you made it this far thanks. If you do not want to kill me for opposing your deeply held practice, thanks even more. I have concluded what many would strongly disagree with, and that is incoherent speech is not of God. I came to this conclusion based primarily on exegesis of the Biblical witness, some study of history, and recent scientific discoveries and experiments.
Just remember that as a Christian you have a responsibility to the Biblical text. God calls us to love Him with all of our mind, and He has revealed Himself to us through this Word. We cannot base theology on what we like, or our experiences, or even what our family has done. A truly humble Christian will submit first to the authority of the written Word and not what “feels right” or what you have always done.
I know even some of my closest friend (and strangers) will want to disagree and argue with me about tongues. They will probably be mad. I am willing to discuss this in an orderly and loving way. If better evidence is presented, I will even change my mind. In the last two years I have made large religious changes from Wesleyan to Calvinism, hard cessationism to a softer version (maybe “Open but cautious”), changed views on women’s issues, eschatology, and other beliefs. I am not married to a belief, but I am tied to Scripture and reason. So if you want to discuss please do not hesitate to contact me, but please do so in a loving way and make sure you have read the whole article to prevent redundancy. Remember, this article is not arguing for cessation of all gifts, it is determining what Biblical tongues are, what they aren’t, and how should they be practiced.
“sav lasav sav lasav kav lakav kav lakav zeer sham zeer sham” -Isaiah 28:13
God Bless!
------------ This work is NOT original. There are several sources I pulled from. I do not agree with some or all of what the source states, but I did use it.
www.biblegateway.org for Biblical searches and referencing
www.zhubert.com for Greek studies
http://www.religioustolerance.org/tongues5.htm for science studies, I do not agree with the overall teaching of the site, but have good resources on religious materials
http://www.reformedgeek.com/2007/06/10/untwisting-the-tongues-issue/ helped with exegetical method. I do not hold to the hard cessation this teacher does.
www.wikipedia.com for greater understanding, obviously hit and miss
Just Google “Christian tongues” for a month or so and see most the sites I read, both pro and con tongues.
Norm Geisler, Systematic Theology. Volume 4. Do not prescribe to his soteriology or cessationism
http://www.hwhouse.com/Current%20Articles%20Downloads/Theology/tonguesandmystery.htm for mystery cult information
http://www.enjoyinggodministries.com/article/37-history-of-the-pentecostal-charismatic-movements for history, this is Pentecostal
http://arc.iphc.org/timeline/azusalinks.html for history, this is Pentecostal
|
|
|
| I think I can, I think I can, I think I can (part 1) |
[Jun. 23rd, 2007|02:40 am] |
| [ | mood |
| | This project has taken me 13hr | ] | INTRO
Faith is like crossing a bridge, if the bridge is made out of real wood and stone you can cross it. But if it is made out of Legos and toothpicks, it may look good but I would not step foot on it. In other words, faith is only as good as which you put your faith in. If you put your faith in a toothpick bridge, you will fall. I want you to have faith in the rock, the true Jesus. That way you will not fail.
There is a theological flux in Christianity right now. It is called the "Word-Faith" movement. And as you know I have been doing some research on it lately. I wish to share with you what I have discovered. It has been called by some "the most dangerous movement in Christianity", not only because of the teachings, but because how much it can look like authentic Christianity and how so many unknowing churches are falling into it without discernment. It is, literally, a wolf in sheep’s clothing.
The thing is, unlike other false doctrine, the Word-Faith movement is just that, a movement. It is not a denomination, nor are there systematic theologies. The main people in the movement come from different backgrounds and have no central canon of teaching. I mention this because it is key to know that not all of the Word-Faith (WF from here on out) teach the same things, but there are many similarities in all of them, which allows me to speak against it in a unified manner. Basically, if I speak against something like Mormonism then it affects all people who agree with Mormon theology based on the writing texts from Mormonism. With WF, there are many variants, and streams of it. But like I said above, there are enough similarities and shared ideas that they can be grouped together in general.
Before I get to the meat of the message, I also want to know that many of them either avoid directly teaching what they think, or try to phrase it in a common biblical way. But often they say what they actually believe, or print their actual beliefs. So they sound like great teachers 99% of the time, and it takes some digging to find errors, but I promise you they are there. You find that their actual beliefs either come out in controlled publishing (books sold to people who already agree or at a rallies and crusades) or in moments of excitement where many people cannot understand what is being said. This does two things, one is it makes them sound good to common Christians, and two is it slowly gets their message out to people. It is said that the "best way to poison a dog is a little bit of venom in a big steak", that way they cannot detect it, but they do digest it, even if slowly. That is why someone like Joyce Meyer is widely accepted, but also holds some deep and important heresies, and she is hurting people spiritually. They also, when pressed on issues, "repent" by rewording something but keeping the same view (Joyce Meyer’s "Most Important Decision" has two publishings, they are different; she reworded some heresy to try to cover it), or simply to stop publishing the materials without releasing a changed doctrinal stance.
THE HERESIES
Intro
The basis for many of the false teachings stems from the WF view of humanity and God. Some WF teaches that when Adam sinned, he did more than fell, but became a devil-man. He took on the nature of Satan (I thought my "humanity sucks" statements were rude, WF says that "humanity is the devil"). So all who are not saved are, by nature, Satanic. Not merely fallen, affected by sin and cursed by God, possessed by a demon, or in opposition to God, but actually Satan by nature. Huge difference.
In contrast, the saved are God-men. Men with the very nature of God. Much like Christ’s incarnation, fully man and fully God. Not simply reborn men, with the indwelling Holy Spirit, but actual "little Gods". This teaching allows Joyce Meyer to say: "I finally got it through my thick head I wasn’t a sinner anymore. And the religious world think that’s heresy…"[1, she’s right, we do] and Benny Hinn to say "We are little Christs"[2]. Another leader of the movement said the Christian "is as much an incarnation as was Jesus of Nazareth."[3] Compare this to Romans 7 and 1 John 1:8. This doctrine is important for later.
These things follow with their view of creation. The claim that Adam was created a god, in fact one of the movement’s leaders Kenneth Copeland (who was the main influence for Joyce Meyer) said that "God’s reasoning for creating Adam was to reproduce Himself" [4]. So that is saying that God created Adam, a divine man who sinned and became a satanic man. We are created gods before the Fall. How does this square with the serpent’s temptation to "be like God"? We already are according to WF. This is obviously not Biblical, and is logically inconsistent: How can a god (Adam) sin?
On Jesus
Since the nature of man is different, this changes the nature of Christ. Many, although not necessarily all, have differing unorthodox views of Jesus. Those like Copeland say that Jesus is not divine, but rather created [5]. Others, like TD Jakes, deny the traditional Trinity and teach modalism (The Father became the Son became the Spirit, only one exists at a time). The view of Jesus by Benny Hinn is confusing. At one point he says there is a 9 person trinity (a ninity?), and that Jesus would have sinned without the Spirit (as God, Jesus could not anyways). Hinn says, "So had the Holy Ghost not been there, then Jesus would have sinned."[6] Yet another teaching (I cannot find the reference) is that Mary "spoke Jesus into existence" (this will become more clear later). Since they all do not agree at this point, I will move on from here.
The Atonement and Christ’s Sacrifice
These teachings elevate into what I see to be the worst of all the heresies in the WF movement. One interesting thing about this is that all the WF teachers hold to some version of this, so they will not say it is not what they believe. And this is the doctrine of salvation (aka soteriology). They deny the death of Jesus as the once and for all atoning sacrifice for sin. Rather Jesus dies, spends time in Hell getting beat by the Devil, then be born again. They believe in a "born again Jesus". Let us look more closely…
The WF teachers do not deny that Christ’s death on the cross happened. They just deny it is important (compare 1 Cor. 15:3-4)! The logic is that it is not special for a man to die. Frederick Price said "Do you think that the punishment for our sin was to die on a cross? If that were the case, the two thieves could have paid our price." [7] Anyone’s death, according to this logic, would pay for other people’s sins. This ignores the importance of Christ’s divinity in the atonement (if Christ was only a man, then His death can only cover one person but since He is God His death covers all), and that the sacrifice must be "without defect or blemish" (Lev 22:21, 1 Peter 1:19). Kenneth Hagin stated "Christ's physical death on the cross was not enough to save us."[8]
Since they downplay the physical death of Christ, they create something that is not scriptural in its wake… Jesus’ spiritual death! God, the second person of the Trinity, was damned! One famous preacher teaches that "The Bible indicates that for three days, Jesus went into the very depths of Hell, right into the enemy’s own territory, and he did battle with Satan face to face" [9]. In fact this is so important to WF teaching that another said "You cannot go to heaven unless you believe with all your heart that Jesus took your place in hell" [10]. Now it is possible that Jesus visited Hades (1 Peter 3:19, although there are several other possibilities for this text), but He went in victory, not for punishment. Again, WF says "When His blood poured out, it did not atone" [11]. The idea is that Jesus’ physical death is worthless, while the time spent in Hell is what atoned for us.
The idea that "Jesus tasted Spiritual death"[12] doesn’t square with the Bible. Jesus’ (if He even visited) actions in Hades (not Hell since Hell is not created as the Lake of Fire in Rev.) was NOT to pay for sins. For this to be true, there would have to be several things. One is that Satan and the demons live in Hell as their home, this is just not true, they wander the world looking for prey (Job 1:7, 1 Peter 5:8), Hades/Hell is a place of torment, not Satan’s house (this is an old view from the medieval period from the legend Dante’s Inferno). Secondly, it ignores Luke 16:26 that says that if you go into Hades as a punishment, you are not going out! Finally, and most importantly, it would have to be possible for God to die Spiritually. In fact to reconcile this some teach that Jesus gave up His divinity at the cross, took on the nature of Satan, and died merely a man. Jesus took the nature of Satan, get that? Copeland on the issue said "Just as Adam died spiritually, Jesus died spiritually. The spiritual death He suffered caused His physical body to die.... When Jesus accepted the sin nature of Satan into His Spirit He cried 'My God, My God, why hast Thou forsaken Me?' He was separated from God... He was ushered into the bowels of hell" [13, underline added] at the cross.
The atonement is the breaking of the BODY of Jesus, not the Spiritual death. Jesus said "It is finished" in John 19:30, the work was done at His physical death. The WF teachers take this verse to mean that the OT Law is finished, Copeland said this "It did away with the handwriting of the ordinances that were against us"[14]. Joyce Meyers echoes a similar teaching. The problem is that the Old Testament thought was that "the life of a creature is in the blood" (Lev 17:11) and Jesus’ physical death, the pouring of His physical blood, is what saves us (Rom 5:9, Col 1:20, Heb 9:12). Nowhere does the Bible teach Jesus’ spiritual death. And the WF interpretation is wrong by Matthew 5:17.
Kenneth Copeland's view "…All the hosts of hell was [sic] upon Him. Upon Him. They got on Him. They got Him down in the floor and got on Him. And they were laughing and mocking." "Sunday morning, here comes the Son. Sunday morning, God gets Himself together. Ho, hoooo. Justice has been met, somehow the thing's been taken care of. And ol' God gets His voice together and He hollers out three words and they go roaring through the universe and entering the gates of hell. He said, 'It is enough! It is enough!" [15, underline added]. Odd, especially in light Luke 23:43 where Jesus tells the other man on the cross that "I tell you the truth, today you will be with me in paradise"
As eluded to above, if Jesus died Spiritually, then He has to be born again. Jesus has to be born again. WF teaches that "the resurrection power of Almighty God went through hell and filled Jesus...He was resurrected from the dead, the first born-again man" [16]. This born again Jesus left Satan’s nature and once again took on divine nature and was resurrected. This born again Jesus has been given a new identity or a new name "He has given to Him the name that has within it the fullness of the Godhead"[17] (compare to the actual Biblical verse Col 2:9) So at the resurrection Jesus took on divinity again. Jesus was given Godliness. It is error to think He ever lost it! Jesus IS GOD and as such is unchanging (Hebrews 13:8), although He "added" a human nature, He cannot lay down His divine nature and pickup a Satanic one, just to pick up the divine yet again. Jesus was resurrected, not born again. Born again is meant for fallen humans to have a change of heart (Ezekiel 36:26) from God and be given the Holy Spirit, not to take on a divine nature.
To recap the WF atonement… The man Jesus became Satan, died and went to a non-existing Hell to get beat up by demons who were not there because God was in a panic, then Jesus was born again, retaking on his divine nature, giving the sound of his name power.
PLAIN AND SIMPLE, WORD-FAITH DENIES THE PROPER TRINITY AND THE ATONEMENT, the benchmarks of Christianity. Some say you have to believe WF to be saved.
Our Salvation
Since Jesus was born again with a divine nature, WF teach that (as I eluded to above) that saved people’s do so as well. Saved people are mini gods according to WF. Benny Hinn on the subject: "If He was not reborn, I would never be reborn. How can I face Jesus and say, 'Jesus you went through everything I've gone through, except the new birth?'" [18] Since Christ’s rebirth included taking on divine nature, so do we. "I am a little god. I have His name. I am one with Him. I'm in covenant relation. I am a little god." [19] The FOUNDER of Word Faith, EW Kenyon said "Every man who has been 'born again' is an Incarnation, and Christianity is a miracle. The believer is as much an Incarnation as was Jesus of Nazareth" [20]. This is interesting, isn’t this what Satan tempted us with? To become gods? Also, isn’t this similar to Mormonism exaltation doctrine? We become gods, according to WF. This is our salvation, not to being changed and given the Spirit.
The Consequences of Our Salvation
This is where things get interesting. Since we are little gods, we have the power of God. We have control, instead of God ruling our lives, we rule it. Our divine nature gives us creative powers, powers to change the world, and just simply "Power". Just as God spoke to create, we now can speak to create. Now this is NOT the view of Christianity, that if we have faith in God, and it is within His will, He will provide. We can present petitions to God, Philippians 4:6; but God does NOT have to answer (2 Cor 12:7); He makes the choice to grant or not depending on His will. WF teaches that we use the power of our divine nature to create ourselves what we want. This doctrine goes by several names: Name it and Claim it, Health and Wealth, Prosperity Gospel, and (my favorite) Blab it and Grab it. Joyce Meyers explains: "We can curse our future by speaking evil of it, or we can bless it by speaking well of it. If we will take the Word of God and start to speak it over our lives, things can begin to change dramatically. We can prophesy our own future!" [21]
Another teacher, Joel Osteen, said: "It’s not enough to just read it. It’s not enough to just believe it. You’ve got to speak it out. Your words have creative power. One of the primary ways we release our faith is through our words. There is a divine connection between you declaring God’s favor and seeing God’s favor manifested in your life. And some of you are doing your best to please the Lord. You are living a holy consecrated life, but you’re not really experiencing God’s supernatural favor. And it’s simply because you’re not declaring it. You’ve got to give life to your faith by speaking it out." [22]
Some teach that this power comes with a special choice. This is similar to the "Baptism of the Holy Spirit" doctrine by charismatic, that with special prayer and the decision you get gifts of power. It is different than the charismatic thinking in that most charasmatics still let God be Lord, where WF uses this new power to control the world around them. TD Jakes: "Scripture teaches that receiving Christ as your personal Savior does not necessarily make you a son of God, but if you choose to do so, the power (authority) and right to do so is present. ... Just being saved does not make you a son of God, ...only those who are willing to be led by the Spirit actually realize and manifest the sonship of God."[23] This is a two level salvation! In comparison to Gal 3:26 and Romans 8:1-4, all who are saved are sons of God. And to be baptized with the Spirit is imply to be saved and part of the body of Christ (1 Cor 12:13) (this is where charismatics go wrong).
Charle’s Capps: "The spirit of man is not of this world, it is of the spirit world. The creative ability of man comes through his spirit. He speaks spirit words that work in the world of the spirit. They will also dominate the physical world. He breathes spirit life into God's Word and it becomes a living substance, working for him as it worked for God in the beginning. These spirit words dominate the natural world". [24]
Simply speaking, if you are saved, and operate as God with the Power of Faith, you can have whatever you want. This is why it is called the health and wealth Gospel. If we want to be healthy and wealthy we can do it on our own, with our own power, with our own words. Operating in this place of power is usually called the "anointing". Popular sayings are like "I have the anointing" or "I was in the anointing" or "I feel the anointing strongly". The WF teachers claim to have God’s power by "being in the Spirit" or like phrases, this establishes power. And since you are a little God, you can have all of this too.
Health and Wealth
"You can have what you say! In fact, what you are saying is exactly what you are getting now. If you are living in poverty and lack and want, change what you are saying. It will change what you have. Discipline your vocabulary. God will be obligated to meet your needs because of His word. If you stand firmly on this, your needs will be met" [25] God is obliged to meet my needs? God has to do what I say? I control God?
John Avanzini, who assures everyone that "Jesus was handling big money."[26]. "Jesus had a nice house, a big house--big enough to have company stay the night with Him at the house." [27] There was something about the son of man not having something… oh yeah, a place to lay his head (Luke 9:58).
Joel Osteen: "It’s the same way with us. We have to conceive it on the inside before we’re ever going to receive it on the outside. If you don’t think you can have something good, then you never will. The barrier is in your mind. It’s not God’s lack of resources or your lack of talent that prevents you from prospering. Your own wrong thinking can keep you from God’s best." [28] from his book Your Best Life Now… I thought our best life was to be in Heaven? Oh well… "Your circumstances will line up with your words." "Words are like seeds, they have creative power." "The more you talk about it the more you call it in." "Your words will give life to what you are saying." "You can change your world by simply changing your words." "You can use your words to bless your life or curse your life" [29, all six last quotes from one sermon]
Joyce Meyer: "if we expect to have good things happen because what you say then is what you probably end up having tomorrow" [30]. Also has a health view: "Pain is a spirit. When it gets on your body, tell it to leave" [31]
"I am fully convinced - I would die saying it is so - that it is the plan of Our Father God, in His great love and in His great mercy, that no believer should ever be sick; that every believer should live his full life span down here on this earth; and that every believer should finally just fall asleep in Jesus" [32]. Darn it, I had a cold last year… I must not be saved.
"Yeah, God has pleasure in the prosperity. So he must have displeasure in the poverty. So if he does, then poverty couldn't be from God. Yeah… God lets (poverty) happen. You're right, he does. He does, because you do. He can't do anything about it" [33]. I thought Jesus said something else… what was it? Something…. about a rich man, and a camel… and a needle… hmmmm? And God is powerless compared to man?
TD Jakes: "My brothers and sisters the power of life and death is in the tongue. You can have whatever you say"[34].
Price: "If you've got one dollar faith and you ask for a ten-thousand dollar item, it ain't going to work. It won't work. Jesus said, 'According to your (faith),' not according to God's will for you, in His own good time, if it's according to His will, if He can work it into his busy schedule. He said, 'According to your faith, be it unto you'" [35, emphasis and double emphasis added].
Let’s take a break for a video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=di9-PebV634
Enough said?
Prophecy
This section I will open up with Scripture, "But a prophet who presumes to speak in my name anything I have not commanded him to say, or a prophet who speaks in the name of other gods, must be put to death. You may say to yourselves, 'How can we know when a message has not been spoken by the LORD?' If what a prophet proclaims in the name of the LORD does not take place or come true, that is a message the LORD has not spoken. That prophet has spoken presumptuously. Do not be afraid of him." (Deuteronomy 18:20). We should not fear false teachers, in fact this scripture is clear that if ANYONE that speaks in the name of the LORD and it is false, they are not to be associated with the community, in fact they should be immediately killed and we should not fear him at all. Now I am not going to walk around killing false prophets, I think God can forgive and people can repent, and I am not the judge. But I am comfortable saying that I am not going to listen to false prophets, and teach against them.
Since we are little gods, we obviously have the power of prophecy (which contradicts Paul when he asks "are all prophets?" (1 Cor 12:28)). This means that anything I teach while prophesying MUST come true. The question for WF is are they foreseeing the future or inventing it? The Health and Wealth mentality is creating destiny, not simply being told by God what it is. I have never claimed to speak prophecy, and probably never will, but I will speak boldly the Word of God. And any mistake I make in my teaching is forgivable, I am not claiming to be speaking for God, just learning the scriptures and sharing what I learn. But the WF claims prophetic power.
Joyce Meyer: "I'm not a prophet of God. I'm a woman of God that's preaching the gospel. I operate with a prophetic flare. And God gives me words and things."[36]…. huh? So you are not a prophet, but you speak prophecy, and God tells you what to say? Ya sure you are not claiming prophetic gifts? "I am going to tell you something right now. I no more believe that my God is going to let me stand around and believe a lie than I believe that I am going to turn green in the next two minutes. God is my source and He loves me and I am after God with my whole heart. And if I am accidentally, or any other way, getting into error, I am going to have a bell go off on the inside of me that is going to be so loud that not only am I going to hear it, but so is everybody else." So you will not teach any falsehood? Ever? OK. Is that because "I believe that right before I speak some anointed statement to you, that one of them bends over and says in my ear what I’m supposed to say to you." [37] So her messages come from angels, she has internal bells going off if she teaches falsehoods and will turn green, she says she speaks words that God gives her, but she is not a prophet? Hmmm….
Benny Hinn: "The Spirit tells me - Fidel Castro will die - in the 90's."[38]… "The Lord also tells me to tell you in the mid 90's, about '94-'95, no later than that, God will destroy the homosexual community of America." [38]… "You know, yesterday on the program I was telling you and the audience here that Ruth Heflin, the prophetess, had sent me a word from the Lord, where she said that the Lord had spoken to her clearly, that, a, for me to prepare myself, for the Lord is going to visibly appear, on the platform, in one of our crusades. I pray it'll happen in every crusade. But I have a feeling, I am just telling you honestly, I have even told some of our staff, when I go to Kenya, I am going to Kenya in just a few days from now, a million people will be in Kenya, Nairobi. I feel in my being it is going to happen there."[39] The Bible tells us that when Christ returns it will be from the clouds and visible to all (Rev. 1:7) Plus, there was just no manifestation of Christ there according to all records. There are many more fun saying from Benny, but I will leave it here.
Kenneth Hagin said: "In October in St. Louis, the center and heart of the nation, it shall come. It shall spread all over the nation. Manifestations everywhere. That which has frustrated will be removed. Then you will know the full meaning of the Divine glow. And others will be invited to walk in the light of it, and so they shall. The glory of the Lord shall shine upon His people." [40] This prophecy never took place, there was NOT a revival from St. Louis in July 1997.
John Osteen, Joel’s father had a vision saying that "God has promised him that he will be preaching into his early 90's, and he is only 77 now."[41] He died two weeks later. This is not a hit against Joel, but John. Joel just picked up his father’s church and kept it going after his father’s death, keeping the same WF theology.
The fear realized
Since they are charismatic in practice and depend highly on "special revelation" (aka wild guesses and feelings if not talking about Jesus or the Word or true prophecy), there is a minimal view of Scripture. This comes through in Joel Osteen’s teachings, he simply doesn’t look at the Word. He picks one or two pieces of Scripture to prove his stories, not teaches form the Word. The same goes with Joyce Meyers, her teaching is practical, fun, and generally good advice. But it is not Biblical! It is just good advice. TD Jakes has the same problem, he uses modern psychology and GQ Magazine to teach about manhood, not what God says about being a man. They rest on feelings and not the Word. This is the fear for all, to turn away from the Word. There is a HIGH emphasis on tongues in all of their teachings, they all do it and teach it.
In prayer, many WF teachers tell others NOT to pray with "your will be done" because they can just claim it. "Never, ever, ever go the Lord and say, 'If it be thy will....' Don't allow such faith-destroying words to be spoken from your mouth" [42]
The one’s who do encourage prayer do so completely out of false doctrine. "Now this is a shocker! But God has to be given permission to work in this earth realm on behalf of man. … Yes! You are in control! So if man has control, who no longer has it? God. ... When God gave Adam dominion, that meant God no longer had dominion. So, God cannot do anything on this earth unless we let Him or give Him permission through prayer" [43]. Please just re-read the underlined statement.
Hagin on the issue: "It is unscriptural to pray, 'If it is the will of God.' When you put an 'if' in your prayer, you are praying in doubt." [44]
The Bible: "Now listen, you who say, 'Today or tomorrow we will go to this or that city, spend a year there, carry on business and make money.' Why, you do not even know what will happen tomorrow. What is your life? You are a mist that appears for a little while and then vanishes. Instead, you ought to say, "If it is the Lord's will, we will live and do this or that." As it is, you boast and brag. All such boasting is evil." (James 4:13-16) And what did Jesus say before He was beaten and killed? Oh ya! "Your will be done". So much for a health gospel.
Reaping and Sowing
They all make millions of dollars a year. Prosperity is not a bad thing in and of itself, but many of these WF people do not disclose their financial earnings, and most likely launder money from the ministry. This is especially evil when they teach that you must seed money in order to reap it. This would not be so bad… if it were Biblical. God does say that joyful giving is a Christian attribute, but many, like Jakes, Hinn, and Meyers teach that you get back 100 fold what you pay (or something similar). There is just no promise of that, a gift to God is out of faith, and God honors the faith and will help you get by day to day, but there is no promise to get back 10 or 100 fold. Each time they speak they ask for money, even from the poor. In order to be spiritual you HAVE to give, this is not true. Most the time the teaching is stated "the gift is a seed, and the more you sow the more you will reap", some like Hinn ask for money right before the "healing service" part of the show, so people with needs expect a bigger miracle if they give more.
Look at some examples:
- Joyce Meyers: "Sowing and reaping is a spiritual law... Sow generously and you will reap generously"[45]
- Benny Hinn: "A man said to me, ‘How much do I sow?’ My reply was, ‘What kind of harvest do you want? If you have big debt, sow a big seed.’ That’s just the way it is!"[46]
- Oral Roberts: "God himself has established the law of sowing and reaping, of giving and receiving. Under the New Covenant you can make every act of giving a seed planted which brings you into the SEED-FAITH lifestyle of sowing and reaping which I have been led to call 'A Blessing-Pact Covenant with God.'" [47]
- TD Jakes: "You could have kept that $1,000 and not gone through the trouble! Come on church folk! But God is going to give you some more on top of that" [48]
Reaping and sowing is a Spiritual truth… but not a financial one. Galatians 6:7-8 please.
Why is it attractive?
It is attractive because it is empowering. Even if you do not get taught the whole "you are a mini god" deal you are taught that you have Power, and you can determine your own destiny.
It is uplifting because they believe that God simply wants them to be happy with all the good. Sure, God wants joy, but His goal is not for us to have fun. Most of these preachers have bright smile on their faces, speak in a fun way, tell a lot of stories, and say what sounds nice… God wants something for you and you can get it within your own power.
The WF person is never confused or doubts because they are doing it themselves, they are not worried about the will of God. There is no struggle with the sinful nature because they are mini gods. And since they have the focus and determination (and spiritual power that may be from someone other than God), they seem to be blessed and have it all together. Who would not want to follow that?
They seem convincing because they show much of fruit, some prophecy, speak with authority, and have a smile on their face. They look and sound appealing, and their followers want what the WF teacher have. Followers compare themselves to the WF teachers and realize that all they need is more faith, to speak better, and sow a bigger harvest. They need to seek the Power, and they do this by listening to WF teachers. If it fails it is not because of the false teachings, or God’s will, but rather a faithlessness, a doubt, or a sin that is holding them back. So they push harder to follow the WF, hoping to one day just get it.
Where is God in all of this?
He is powerless! Many teach that God has relinquished His power to humanity. Copeland once gave an image that Satan was between him and God. Copeland asked God to remove Satan and God responded something like "I cannot, it is in your power. I gave my power to you to remove Satan" [Sorry, reference unknown] (in Jude 9, the archangel had to call on God to remove Satan, why is it in our power?)
If humans succeed it is because we have the power, and we had enough faith to claim what we want.
If we fail it is because of our doubt, or a sin.
What a man centered religion! Read Ephesians 2:8-9, James 1:17, Romans 9:15-16. I thought God was supposed to be the center of our religion? He is Lord, king of our lives, not us.
Conclusion
Each person quoted in the have been big in the movement. Many, like Joel Osteen, TD Jakes, and Frederick Price have mega churches in the thousands of attendees. Others, like Benny Hinn, Paul Couch, and Joyce Meyers all have either TV or radio ministries around the globe. Each of them, when they travel, have thousands flock to them to see them preach. These are big names. And many of them, like Benny Hinn, Joyce Meyers, TD Jakes, and Joel Osteen are all looked upon with favor by Christian laypersons.
The WF movement is heretical, I would not support their ministry in any way. They are harming the souls of thousands of people, giving people false hopes, and doing more damage than good. One of the problems with WF is that when a person "claims" healing, they stop seeing their doctor and the disease still kills them. This happens often, especially to travelling healing ministries like Benny Hinn.
Oral Roberts is big in the WF movement. He actually was one of the first big time preachers for it. He had prophecy like he was going to build a City of Faith Medical Center (which never came to pass), he had a vision of a 900 foot tall Jesus, and he said that God told him that he would find a cure for cancer. He also supported Jim Bakker and had a vision from God saying Mr. Bakker was innocent, this was false. He opened Oral Roberts University, which spreads the WF heresy to its students under the banner of a Christian School.
The WF is heresy and will take money from you and teach you false doctrine. Be aware, make it known to people who idolize people like Benny Hinn and TD Jakes what they are doing.
God Bless!
------
REFERENCES:
1. Joyce Meyer, What Happened form the Cross to the Throne sermon
2. Benny Hinn, Trinity Broadcasting Network, 1990
3. Kenneth Hagin, The Incarnation, The Word of Faith; Dec. 1980
4. Kenneth Copeland, Following the faith of Abraham, Tape #01-0304
5. "Jesus only existed as an image in the heart of God". Copeland, The Power of the tongue
6. Benny Hinn, Praise the Lord, TBN, April 24 1998
7. Frederick KC Price, Ever Increasing Faith Messenger, June 1990
8. Kenneth Hagin, How Jesus obtained His Name, Tape 44H01
9. Joel Osteen, Sermon #CS_002-4-23-00
10. Joyce Meyer, The Most Important Decision You Will Ever Make, 1991
11. Kenneth Copeland, Believer's Voice of Victory, September, 1991
12. Kenneth Hagin, How Jesus obtained His Name, Tape 44H01
13. Kenneth Copeland, Classic Redemption
14. Kenneth Copeland, Believer's Voice of Victory, September, 1991
15. Kenneth Copeland, From the Cross to the Throne, sermon 1999
16. Joyce Meyer, The Most Important Decision you will ever make, 1991
17. Kenneth Hagin, The Name of Jesus
18. Benny Hinn, Our position on Christ, Orlando 1991
19. Paul Couch, Praise the Lord, Trinity Broadcast Network 1986
20. EW Kenyon, The Father and His Family, 1964
21. Joyce Meyer, Prophecy Your Won Future, Miracle Now Oct. 1998
22. Joel Osteen, Bible Answer Man, 2004
23. TD Jakes, The Harvest. 1996
24. Charle’s Capps, The Tongue, a Creative Force. 1976
25. Kenneth Copeland, The Laws of Prosperiety
26. John Avanzini, Praise the Lord, Trinity Broadcasting Network, videotape, September 15, 1988
27. John Avanzini, Believer's Voice of Victory, Trinity Broadcasting Network, videotape, January 20, 1991
28. Joel Osteen, Your Best Life Now
29. Joel Osteen, Speaking Faith filled Words, Tape 223 Daystar Television, 2004
30. Joyce Meyer, Bible Answer Man, 2003
31. Joyce Meyer, From the Cross to the Throne.
32. Kenneth Hagin, Seven Things You Should Know about Divine Healing
33. Frederick KC Price, Ever Increasing Faith. 1990
34. TD Jakes, (During an Intermission of) The bone collector, Part 2, TBN, 2004
35. Frederick Price, (quote from critical work) Charasmatic Chaos
36. She said this in an interview after a devastating fire killed many people. They asked why she could not foresee the fire.
37. Joyce Meyer, Witchcraft and Related Spirits
38. Benny Hinn, Orlando Christian Center 12-31-1989
39. Benny Hinn, This is Your Day, 4-21-2000
40. Kenneth Hagin, Holy Ghost meeting, St. Louis Family Church
41. Lakewood Church prayer Request, Jan 19 1999
42. Benny Hinn, Rise and Be Healed, 1991
43. Frederick Price, Know what prayer is, and how to pray
44. Kenneth Hagin, Exceedinly Growing Faith
45. Joyce Meyers, What does your future hold? 2004
46. Benny Hinn, This is Your Day, 1996
47. Oral Roberts, Holy Bible, The Oral Roberts Edition: My personal commentary
48. TD Jakes, Bible Answer Man, 2004
|
|
|
| If I only had a brain... |
[Jan. 8th, 2007|01:10 am] |
As a friend has asked on MySpace a couple months ago, is there free will or are we determined? Does this determination include our brain chemicals, to act and react a certain way based on the environment, which (too) is determined by previous states. No such thing as free will (many atheists are coming around to this view)(this also solves the nature nurture debate, because then everything, even the nurturing, is nature). But I would say this is form of determinism is not the same as destiny. Being determined is not the same as being destined. Destiny means that it was planned or plotted. The random domino effect of chemicals that make up the whole universe is not planned or plotted, therefore not destined, even if it works according to a determined system. So there is a difference between destiny and determination.
So what does this do to free will? It seems to me that if being determined is the opposite of choice (but on the same level), and destiny does not effect determination, then destiny should also not affect freedom. So we can, using the logic above, have a destiny and still have free will. Our lives can have a plan or purpose, and we can still choose that plan or purpose and still think of it as true freedom.
This, at least, takes away some of the dilemma with the Christian worldview of destiny and responsibility. We can sin, and be held morally culpable, even if we are destined. There is no contradiction, by definition, by saying freedom is not opposed to destiny. This raises an even more interesting dilemma, but not for the Christian. If we have freedom, which I would say is an "intuitive fact" and does not need argument, then we should see something besides the determined brain chemicals that motivate us to do something. If free will exists then the naturalistic view of the world must be wrong. But just because I do not need an argument for free will doesn’t mean I will not give one.
As humans we constantly do things that are outside of our “benefit”. If we are solely “meat computers” then all of our choices would come from the process of determining the best way to survive. Ironically, if our brains process survival as the highest benefit, then why are people able to abstain from procreation? Or choose to fast? Or do things that harm themselves or others. Why are we also self destructive in the way we eat or live? It seems that as a robot we would always (like a machine) do what is most beneficial. What we see in the world is not what we should see according to an atheistic system. We should have evolved into super decision making survival machines, but we are not. Instead we use our “intelligence” to find better ways to destroy (so much for the “promise of science” and the whole idea of humanism). Another interesting thing is that the whole of human history we have not asked “how do we live”, instead we ask “what is true?” Most religions and worldviews involve sacrifice (the opposite of survival) in order to show that you hold to the truths that you would die for. Now, if survival is the highest good, then truth is lower than survival. That means, as meat computers, we are not interested in actually having truth, rather we are interested in safety. That means, truth is NOT important in an atheistic worldview! We would have evolved without any care for truth, our brains would be interested in survival and not truth finding. We would have merely evolved without any truth finding mechanisms, everything would be based off simple survival. In the end, atheists, in their own worldview, deny the importance of truth then lose the legs to stand on when they make truth claims! Atheists can not be justified in making ANY truth claim because that claim could merely be a lie that is believed in order to protect their survival.
So the fact we do things beyond our survival, and the fact we care about truth, shows that have some degree of choice outside of this meat computer called our brains. And if freedom exists then there is something to our humanity that is not physical and not part of the brain. A mind, soul, or spirit if you will. So the question becomes how can we show there is a soul, thus supporting evidence this non-physical part of the mind?
Like I mentioned above, all a Christian has to do is show a SINGLE item that does not correlate to a physical state. To show that only a single action originates outside our brain’s chemical reaction. If Christians can show only one thing that is not physical and yet is part of the mind, we have shown that the mind is beyond the brain, a soul exists, and pure naturalism is false.
With this meat computer idea, this in no way explains consciousness. What an atheist has to say is that our brains are such a complex computer that we seemingly have conscience. But that is equivalent to saying if you stack stones in a certain way you would end up with the same effect, a living stack of rocks. This, obviously, is not seen in the world. Complexity does not create a conscience. No computer, doesn’t matter how complex, will ever have a conscience.
To show this I will point out that computers can only make quantitative judgments, compare and manipulate numbers. Living beings, humans specifically, can make qualitative judgments. Something is “good” or “bad”, “right” or “wrong”. A computer will always be able to say that a number is higher or lower than another number. But the machine can never tell you that higher is "better". Even when a computer says "you win" in a video game, it is simply outputting a set of digital outputs. "You win" has no meaning to the computer other than binary code, the numbers have no quality, they are just ones and zeros. It was programmed to tell us that we win, not that it is actually joyful for our victory. Humans apply quality all the time, we are more than just complex machines.
So Christians have to discover only one thing that is in our mind but not in our brain. And interestingly enough, we have! An atheist neurologist worked on hundreds of epileptic patients. By stimulating every part of the brain, Wilder Penfield, never found the brain center for consciousness. He would poke a person’s brain and force them to raise their hand. Naturally, the hand would raise. But unexpected the person would say “you did that, not me”. A person does not identify themselves with their own physical brain. The next experiment he did the same thing, but told the patient to prevent the hand from raising. He poked the brain, the hand rose, but the other hand tried to hold it down! Penfield continued and poked almost the entire brain, but never found the region of the brain responsible for this type of behavior. Penfield could never change the desires or identity of his patients no matter where he prodded. Basically, Penfield showed that the brain was competing with itself, and there is nowhere for “choice” or identity to originate. Also, if part of the brain is activated, then the rest of the brain should agree, much like how if you move the second hand on a watch, the minute hand will follow, so will the hour hand. Stimulating one part of the machine will cause other parts to play along. But not the mind. He concluded that there is part of the mind that is not the brain. The mind tells the brain what to do, the brain activates and does the action. There is a mind outside the brain, a soul.
Now I would agree that if part of the brain is damaged, then there is a loss of ability or knowledge. But if we see the brain as an “antenna” to the soul then this makes perfect sense. When part of the antenna goes down, then it stops sending and receiving signals from that part. Which perfectly explains the phenomena.
Also, this soul thesis explains the rare cases that a brain can rebuild itself, or that loss of function does not 100% correlate to brain damage, and other anomalies. Out of body experiences of near death patients make sense. We are not only meat computers.
As far as I know, Penfield’s experiments have not yet been disproven, nor has all the phenomena been adequately explained by naturalistic methods. In fact his discoveries are still the basis for modern neuroscience, and his map of the brain is still used exclusively today, basically unchanged. Penfield was a strict materialist (mind is the brain) when he started his experiments, in fact that is what he set out to prove. He wanted to show that we are only meat computers. He concluded his studies as a dualist (mind and brain are separate). The atheist would then argue that science has just not YET explained the mind. But the question is if science even can? I trust science, I do, but the question how the mind (not brain) works may not even be a scientific question, leaving science void in this area. The mind is metaphysical, and as such science can not explain it. It is not that science HAS not explained the mind yet, it is that science CAN’T explain the mind!
It also seems that the atheist is placing his trust into science (even though scientists also once believed the world was flat, not just religious people). Faith in science (with nothing more than a man created practice) is just viable as faith in God. God has worked in my life and I can trust Him based on past experiences, the same reason people trust science.
Now all of this is to answer my friend above. If we have freedom, then we are more than meat computers. If we have a soul then there is more to this world than just molecules in motion. Now is the point of decision, do we place our trust in Christ to save our soul?
And even if a materialist position is true, we will never be justified in believing it!
God Bless! |
|
|
| CD... $15, T-Shirt... $20, You.... PRICELESS! |
[Nov. 7th, 2006|12:45 am] |
| [ | mood |
| | excited | ] | OK, I am guilty… you caught me.. sorry. Afterall, I am only human, fallen in sin and living in a corrupt world. I am worthless and really do not have value. It is a miracle that anyone, especially God can love me. Again, I repent and I am sorry. Please fix me because I am desperately broken and am good as worm food. Humanity sucks, and I am a human.
OK, so “humanity sucks”. This theme does run throughout the whole Bible. We are fallen humans who sin and need God. And all have sinned and deserve our just punishment. But really? We are only as good as worm food? This seems a little drastic, plus I do not see God sending His Son to die for mud.
Let me clear something up. I am only human, and I do make mistakes. And one mistake I have made over the last couple years is called “worm theology”, which states pretty much what the first paragraph teaches, humans are lesser than worms. But how accurate is that? Even Biblically?
Now I am not saying that we are who we should be, or that we deserves salvation, that is obviously false (Romans 3:23 and News 6:00). We are sinners and are in need of God. No action or set of actions can save us. We are tainted and live in sin. So much so that we will never be fully aware of the sinfulness that we live in. Humanity CAN NOT save itself (this is the core failure of all religions, including the religion of science, that if we are “good enough” we can be saved, we can save ourselves… that is not true). But are things really as dire as I started this post out to be?
Now on a personal note. I have preached “worm theology” for a couple years to my friends and family, and have only seen bad outcomes, even in my own attitudes. So I decided to start looking more carefully at Christian anthropology.
Let us look at some of the evidence.
We are made in the image and likeness of God. Man and women are made in the image. (Gen 1:27, Gen 9:6, James 3:9). Now Christ represents perfectly the image of God (2Cor. 4:4). But humans are made in the image, that is clear. And nowhere in scriptures does it say that the image is lost or corrupted! This is only implied by the Fall, but only two post fall passages reference the image of God in man, and neither speak of corruption.
So humans have value, intrinsic, God given worth. All humans, in fact this is what separates us from the animals (the only difference mentioned in scriptures between man and beast during creation). So all humans should be loved and respected, in fact it is this image of God that makes murder wrong!
Psalm 139:19 tells us that God carefully knit us together! He took the time and energy to make us who we are, as we are, with our strengths, weaknesses, and tastes. The strengths may become a source of pride, and the weakness may become a place of insecurity, and our tastes may become corrupt and twisted. But these are the core of who God made us to be for a reason. Sin and the devil has corrupted it, but we are still uniquely and purposefully designed by God for a reason (Jeremiah 29:11).
On a quick rabbit trail… want to talk about valuing human life? Atheists and evolutionists claim that we are just evolved slime (from Goo to You via the Zoo)! The Bible teaches we may be made out of dust, but we have value beyond our chemical makeup! So next time someone claims that Christianity belittles humans point out that we have the greatest value, God’s image and likeness! Who truly has a low view of life?
God values us humans so much that He is willing to not only lower Himself to listen to our prayers, or give us guidance and forgiveness in His law. But He would also come and become human, be born in a manger, live a workman’s life and then be punished and killed the worst death for us. He must really value and love us in order to go to such an extreme. And He did this for all humans! He loves all of us and desires all to be saved, because He feels we are intrinsically valuable (1 Tim 2:4).
But Christians are also different than other humans. The idea that “Christians are the same only repentant” is not a scriptural attitude! And I firmly held to that and taught it!
Turn with me to Ezekiel 11:19 and 36:26. God’s new covenant with humans gives a NEW heart AND spirit! Wow! If we follow God and love God we will have a new spirit. A spirit not of the fallen self, but one that puts God first and has God’s priorities on its mind. Then how about a new heart? That means our desires will turn from sinful desires to good desires! What we as Christians yearn for is not bad or evil, but rather good! The core of who we are as Christians, our heart and spirit, the inner most parts of us, if truly faithful to God, is not worm food.. but rather Godly and good.
Even further more… as Christians we are given the Holy Spirit! Romans 5:5. We are given the Spirit. God places so much value and trust into us that He is willing to not only die on the cross for us, but also give us, to live and dwell in us (2 Tim 1:14). God dwells within us! Imagine how much He has to humble Himself to do that, but He does it because we are worth something.
How about the gifts we have? Now I am not going to debate the efficacy of the spiritual “sign” gifts in today’s church. But what about the God given gifts that we are infused with at our creation? What about the new strengths and maturity we see as we follow Christ more closely? And what about how the Holy Spirit empowers us to know and live rightly? We are not only created and forgiven, but God also equips us.
Now lets put aside the theology for a minute. God blesses people, even to this day. I have seen things go against all odds to happen that could only happen because of God. He even heals us, not only emotionally and spiritually, but physically. It is funny how often miracles do not go reported, in fact they are denounced as bogus, but I have heard trustworthy stories of God healing people through prayer from blindness, cancer, etc. God is still in love with us and still want us to live life today!
We… are… valuable. Worm theology seems to also ignore that who does God give us to help us? Usually other people! Why would God give us other worm food to help us? There must be something decent with other humans being given to us to help (Proverbs 27:17, Gal 6:2).
Now all of this is NOT to override that we are, in fact, sinners needing God. This article is not to change that. But rather it is to help undo the damage I (and many anti-modern thinkers) created with our “worm theologies”. We all do need God and cannot be saved without Him. We are all sick and sinful, and need a cure that only God can provide, and we are all in need of salvation that only Jesus Christ can bring. But there is something that needs to be remembered. In all of this repentance and forgiveness, the reason why God wants us is because He loves us. And the reason we are given direction and growth is to make us better and more like He intended.
So application time…
We can have “God confidence”. I do not want to say self confidence because it will be ill placed. But rather have confidence that God made each person. NO PERSON IS A MISTAKE (how often to parents say this to their kids? Or show it with abortions?). God made everyone uniquely with strengths and with a purpose. We can have confidence that He made us this way for a reason and we should love His handy work. This confidence also comes with the knowledge that we are created in His image.
We should love and respect ourselves and others. How many people say that they do not like themselves? Or are not able to love or forgive others? Everyone is created by God with His image. Hatred is murder (1 John 3:15), and so we should love everyone. (This does NOT mean to “accept” their sins, but to love person and point them to God and Godliness).
We can live life to the full. This is why Christ came (John 10:10)! We are forgives in order to remove the guilt and the weight from our shoulders! We are free of guilt. And we should not have fears since God is real and is with us. Take risks, be yourself, and do not carry around baggage. This is what forgiveness is for… to be set FREE! I have seen many Christians so bogged down with repentance and seeking forgiveness they forget the joy, victory, and freedom the Gospel is intended to bring.
We should not be troubled by our insecurities. We are often afraid of things, people, situations, opinions, etc. Well, we are not only created by God (and that should eradicate most insecurities) we also know that a truly loving God (and Godly people) will not reject someone because of their quirks! Do not let insecurities or fear prevent you from living. Or prevent you from being yourself. Why hide God’s creation? He made you!
I have heard story after story of people leaving the church because of the guilt the church placed on them. This is wrong. Yes I agree the church should help people recognize and overcome sin, but to focus on that alone is unbalanced and not Christian. Being a Christian should be empowering.
Also, we can go after our desires. Now I am not preaching hedonism! Far from it, if we follow God His desires should be our desires. But if what we seek can be attained without harming others, interfering with the our relationship with God, go against His law, and does not harm others, then we can seek it. God gives us desires and a sense of adventure for this purpose! We want to create and be inventive, we want to search and discover, as humans we yearn for a challenge and have a desire to do more… Go for it!
Most importantly… we should want to seek Him more. Knowing all of this should be exciting and we should be thankful. If God truly created us with something special in mind, and then gave us the way to remove the baggage, then the gifts equip us to live more fully. This should be a sign to us all, God wants us to live life and have faith and confidence in Him! To love Him, seek Him, and pursue Him all the more.
All of this edifying talk could be wrong… but then I will just blame my sinful nature for it.
God Bless! |
|
|
| Is that for here or to go? |
[Oct. 24th, 2006|12:19 am] |
| [ | mood |
| | nauseated | ] | This one is for Eric… It has been over a year since I posted. Sorry (it is not like I have alot of fans out there anyways). But he reminded me that I had this up. So here is a short but good post for my really great friend. Just remember, no promises on future posts…
I think it is great, though, that my friend criticized me to post this journal. It shows me something that I have been chewing on for a while. And I think I found a tasty morsel. Eric, a Christian, criticized me, a Christian… Now it was not a bitter criticism, he just flavorfully mentioned that I have not fed my journal lately. But this made me think…
Christians seem to blame other people for their problems. The culture, schools, news, stores, other people, philosophy, even other believers. These are all culprits of the biting of the Christians. And revenge is best served on a dish cold.
But in all of this criticism we almost forget one sweet thing. We are our own worst enemies. Let me repeat…
Christians are our own worst enemies.
Is that sour or what?
We continually judge others for not sharing our tastes. We do not present ourselves like seven course meal. And most of our own treats are rotten!
Just think about that last one. We are like spoiled lettuce in a salad (or spinach if you want to us current events). We have all this infighting, denominationalism, etc. Now I do not see a lot of fighting, but I hear stories of churches breaking up because of the color of a carpet or what is served on the dinner menu. This is unity! Can I get an extra serving? Now we expect different interpretations, or even preferences, especially when it comes to high theology like matters of free will or destiny. But this debate should not cause us to explode like Diet Coke and Mentos (yes, I mentioned the “fresh maker” in a journal). Instead these disagreements should be like having cheese and pepperoni on a pizza, not the same, a little contrast, but not fighting. The way we treat each other is enough to make me go on a diet.
But even so, if we stop the infighting what are we doing to look enticing? Look at our bookstores, especially Family bookstores. There is not one intellectual or theological book in there! Lets say the average person walks into a Family bookstore, and is curious about Christianity. What is on the menu for them? TD Jakes, he is a bad apple (heretic). How about Joyce Meyers? She looks better than she tastes (she is a feel good preacher with bad theological grounds). Or how about a slew of feel good Christian music by Philips, Craig and Dean (who are in the same bowl as Jakes). Or marginally filling worship music like WOW CDs released yearly. Catholic Bibles? (That is a sellout move, instead of doctrine they want the dollar). There is nothing filling in our presentation. I do not blame this consumer to walk out and eat elsewhere. What if you had questions of faith like the “problem of evil” or “did Jesus really rise?” Do you think that most pastors are able to swallow that? How about bookstore clerks? The truth is, we are always putting our foot in our own mouth, and then wonder why we have bad breathe.
(This is a rabbit trail, but I never go to Family Bookstores unless I am looking for a shallow feel good gift or a new Bible translation. It is a shallow, almost heretical, and cheap view of Christianity. No wonder why the world thinks we are stupid, look at the stuff web publish in the mainstream. And I know better books exist, I find them at seminary, but they are not found on the shelves of Family, and it Is not what we are showing the world. The problem is that most Christians buy into this view as well. Which just perpetuates the problem.)
Then on top of all of this, we start food fights with other people! The Crusades are great example. Then most Christians have tried to defend that instead of speaking truth by giving the facts and then accepting guilt for the bad things that did come out of it. Instead we try to serve up high calorie but not so filling responses. Then turn around and accuse them of not knowing how to cook themselves. What happened to repentance and fasting?
When you look at the history of the church, there is no greater enemy than ourselves. I know I am my own worst enemy. But many Christians do not see that, they have a sense of self-righteousness. And most of the criticism leveled against the church are true! People are almost justified in not trying Christ because we do a bad job dishing Him out.
One thing that turned me away from God at first was the tart taste left in my mouth from organized religion. And I know we can all say that “religion” is not Christianity, and you’d be right. But that is what people see and associate with us. And nobody is helping the situation by serving out twelve step religious solutions.. that is like the fast-food of religion. Eat cheap, get full, but die in the end. There is no spiritual food there, nothing really satisfying or healthy with that.
We are our own worst enemies. And I might not have any solutions, but it is worse to deny the problems. It is God’s job to restore us, but first we have to come clean and show Him that we really mean to do better.
At the end of the day, Christ will come back and separate the sheep from the goats. And when He judges us one thing He might ask us is “Since you are made in God’s image, how did you represent me? Did you represent me properly?” And although He may forgive us, some he might just spit some back out.
Anyone up for dessert? God Bless! |
|
|
| Secrets of the Universe |
[Sep. 15th, 2005|12:19 am] |
| [ | mood |
| | crazy | ] |
| [ | music |
| | Mix | ] |
A long time ago in a galaxy far,
far away…
(about 75 million years ago)
War! The galaxy is split between the evil forces of Xenu and the Royal Officers, there are heroes on both sides. Xenu tries to take over the Galaxy, killing many and pulling even more to be his minions. Xenu eventually wins the war.
As time goes on the population in the new Galactic government grows out of control, one-hundred-and-seventy-eight billion of aliens on seventy-six planets, Xenu has to do something. He and his rulers come up with a plan, to ship the people to a far away planet and “dispose” of them.
He lures billions of the aliens into a tax audit session, and puts them in a coma, ships to planet Earth (then known as Tegiac) on a ship that looks like a DC-8 airplane, lays them all out at the foot of a volcano and sends hydrogen bomb into each volcano setting each volcano off killing the billions of aliens.
Xenu overlooked one problem, all these alien’s souls now exist and are running rampant among Earth’s solar system and trying to return to their home plants. So Xenu invents a large ray gun like fly-tape that zaps and captures the spirits (a lot like the Ghostbusters proton pack, only much larger). He then puts the spirits into a 3D movie theatre located in Heaven, which looks like the Busch Gardens in Pasadena. There they are taught about many things, all of them lies (or engrams).
A rebellion rises up and stops Xenu’s horrible reign, but instead of killing him they take him and trap him inside a mountain that has a force-field around it which will run forever since it is powered by an eternal battery.
After millions of years of begin taught these lies the spirits are let go, where they are now free to take over the bodies of human beings.
Now, as a human, it is our job to rid ourselves of these thousands of deceived souls that hold onto the lies taught to them and have a pure soul without these deceptions. After the souls leave your body they return to the planet Mars where they wait in line to be given another body to take over (which could take up to 22 million years). If you are successful at ridding yourself of all of these evil souls you are then free to live happily with no lies, seeing the world with perfect vision. The only way to clear these evil spirits is to use the E-Meters (two tin cans tied to an electric box) through special auditing sessions, which cost around $400 an hour.
The reason why we believe in the lies of the world, including all the religions like Christianity is because of these souls (or thatens) were taught it at the 3D movie theatre. Heaven has long since been abandoned and is now run down, it is a place full of deception, the last place we want to go.
These are the secrets of the universe.
OK, for those of you who think I have officially lost it, you are right, but not because of this.
This is actually what Scientology teaches! The story above is what many people believe to be truthful history of our lives. These are the Secrets of the Universe. Taught by L Ron Hubbard to the followers of his religion. Of course you will not hear this from a Scientologist because they either have not paid enough to learn it or do not want to look bad. And we should all be dead now since we have learned it without cleansing out own bodies enough to hear this.
“You can not get rich of writing a penny a word, if you really want to make a million dollars you should start a religion.” ~ L Ron Hubbard.
To learn this you have to reach the third level (OT3) of Scientology which will cost you thousands of dollars and years of your life. By the time you learn this, you are indoctrinated and do not want to leave the religion because of all the time and money you have put into it.
The thing is that the Secrets of the Universe prove one thing that Christianity affirms, and that is that all other religions are a lie… OK that and something else.
That is that human beings will believe in anything. In fact, many believe that L Ron Hubbard (who was a science fiction author before starting Scientology) invented Scientology to prove just that, humans are gullible and would believe in anything.
“We are selling people a piece of blue sky” ~ L Ron Hubbard
If this is true about Hubbard, then would say that Hubbard is right, people will believe in just about anything, us humans are depraved and are unable to recognize the truth. We are foolish, blind, and not willing to look into the claims or truths of our religion. instead we look as to what “feels good”.
“Scientology hold that man is basically good and that his spiritual salvation depends on himself."~ L Ron Hubbard
The fact that people believe in Scientology and follow the religion invented by a science fiction writer shows us how sinful and depraved we actually are. At least to me knowing that people spend time, money, and resources to have the same faith as Hollywood stars just show us how much more we are in need of being saved. Also it just shows that we are unable to save ourselves. How can humanity save ourselves if we are also part of the problem?
Honestly, when left to our own devices look at what some people turn to for comfort and salvation.
And the true God loves us and wants us to be saved, not with E-Meters or big bucks, but with true repentance and faith.
How is Christianity any different than Scientology in its absurdity level? First of all there are no logical problems with Christianity, it makes logical sense and is internally consistent. Scientology is not. Christianity is based off of history and eye-witness testimonies. Scientology is based off the writings of a science fiction writer. Christianity is based of off love. Scientology, money.
Besides being rooted in truth I would say that Christianity is not nearly as absurd as Scientology, re-read the story above and see if it sounds at all true, where the most “absurd” thing in Christianity is the dead being raised.
Now I know that I this is the first time I have attacked a religion specifically. But the goal was not to speak bad of Scientology (although it was fun to) and just use it as an example to show human depravity. And even Scientology gives me the right to speak poorly of them.
“All men have the inalienable right to think freely, talk freely, to write freely on their own opinions, and to counter or utter to write upon the opinions of others.” ~ L Ron Hubbard, Scientology Creed article 7
God Bless! |
|
|
| Welcome back to the public square... |
[Aug. 29th, 2005|10:45 pm] |
| [ | mood |
| | tired | ] |
| [ | music |
| | none | ] |
I have a confession to make…
OK, besides I am lazy and never actually post to this journal..
I confess that I have lied in the past. I called myself a “fundamentalist”. Now in context I would not say it any different, but there is a common misconception that exists out there the gives us Christians a bad name. Primarily… the confusion of the Evangelical community’s root and its relationship to Christian Fundamentalism.
This is probably the hardest thing for non-Christians to understand, but not all of us are Bible pounding, alter hitting, foot stamping, young earth, southern, back-woods, closed-minded “fundies”. Even Christians who, like myself, who believe in the Bible as God’s inspired word and is absolutely true does not have to be categorized as a “Fundamentalist” or as a bigoted Christian. Instead, we are Bible believing, contemporary, un-apologetic, apologetic, intelligent, and socially active Evangelicals.
Now, interestingly enough, most contemporary conservative Christians would define themselves as Evangelical. Some are more Fundamentalist (usually the Southern Baptists). But there is an important separation I wish to make known to the world. And that is not all Christians are anti-science, anti-modern, anti-society Christians. The largest problem Evangelicals have today are that they have to shake the mold that we are caste into based on the Fundamentalist movement that took place over a hundred years ago.
What essentially happened was that the Christians of the time (18-19th cent.) rallied against contemporary sciences and modern philosophies because it made them uncomfortable. Darwinian evolution, naturalism, modernism/post-modernism, existentialism, Marxism, fill-in-the-blank-ism all scared unprepared Christians away. And slowly Christians lost ground in society’s public eye, they chose to hide and stick to themselves passing on the Christian tradition to their children in spite of the world around them. This took Christianity out of the main stream, and labeled all conservative Christians as overly zealous and closed minded. And society might not have been wrong for labeling them that either, that is how they acted.
So today we still have a remnant of the Fundamentalists that give the rest of the community a bad name, however undeserving. And this is the stripe that even the most intelligent or socially aware Christian are given to wear today. This I want to clear up. Now this posting is not meant to be a poke at Fundies (although it can be fun), it is meant to open the eyes of the (zero) readers to what is happening.
Now the difference between the Evangelical and the Fundamentalist come from several areas. Interestingly enough it is not really doctrine that separates them. There is no real difference between the Fundy and the Evangelical in most beliefs. But rather there are social, cultural, and interpretive differences. There are fundamentals of the Christian faith (where the term fundy comes from, in essence everyone is a fundy for their own worldview), and both groups hold to these same beliefs.
The difference is rather why and how they hold on to the beliefs. There is a growing population of critical scholars that are becoming religious for various reasons. Some of them is not because of social forces, but rather because of the best available evidence. These people usually become evangelical, not fundamentalist. The fundamentalist is bound to say that it is true because the Bible says so, rather the Evangelical is going to say that the Bible is true because the evidence says so. This illusion that there is no evidence for the Bible came from the fundy scholars hiding their head in the sand and the social world looking for any reason to dispel that “Christian myth”.
The second thing that separates the Evangelical community from the Fundy community is how we read the Bible. Do not get me wrong, both groups believe in the verbal plenary inspiration of the Bible, and hold steadfastly that the Bible is God’s true word. And every word is truth spoken through the writers. The difference is that the Fundy holds that the words make the proposition, where the Evangelical holds that that words have a range of meanings within the proposition. Where the Fundy holds that each word is true, the Evangelical holds that the ideas that the words make are true. This type of interpretation is usually more helpful in determining the actual meaning of the text, and learning from it. Also, a lot of the Biblical criticism and “contradictions” fall away when you put the words into context.
Another thing that separates the normal Fundy from the rest of us is the relationship between the Bible and the rest of the world. The Fundy is usually more closed minded to things such as scientific discovery, growth, changes in society, and new ideas. The Evangelical usually looks at new ideas and scientific findings in light of the Bible, instead of in contrast to it. Now there are some things that Christians should deny, like relativism. But other things, like the age of the earth, are willing to be discussed more fully. The Fundy is more dogmatic, where the Evangelical is more willing to listen, learn, and argue.
Most Fundies are proponents of the strict literal interpretation of the Bible as every word needs to be doctrine. The Evangelical is willing to say that some of the Bible is history, some is poetry, some of sarcasm, some is parable, etc. The Evangelical attempts to look a the authors meaning for the text and use the ideas and propositions of the text to formulate theology, where the Fundy will take a single passage and run with it yanking it out of context. The fundy usually places too much emphasis on the God inspiration of the Bible, where the evangelical will look at it with a more natural eye. The Bible was written by God through humans for humans. Instead the Fundy will try to defend that pi is exactly 3 (I Kings 3:23), where the Evangelical would accept that pi is not exactly 3, but the passage is not a formulation for pi or maybe a round number. The Bible was tring to get the idea across for the approximate size of the body of water, not the exact dimension. The exact dimensions have no bearing on what the passage is trying to say, or the context given. Afterall, if they were to give the exact formulation for pi, the Bible would never end!
And finally, the last part is how this effects how they interact with the world. Most Fundamentalists would be less likely to discuss their faith in a critical way, be able to answer objections to the Bible, and less likely to listen to new ideas. The Bible is the sole authority and that is all that is needed. The Evangelical is more open to criticism, not because they like it, but rather they understand that there are answers to the problems. Evangelicals do not hide their head in the sand and turn away from society, rather they embrace it, challenge it, and live in it.
This is also why it is an unfair comparison to not only say that all Christians are bound to a fundamentalist view of scripture, but it is also unfair to compare the Evangelical with the “Fundamentalist” Muslims. Because belief in religious dogma is not bad in and of itself. Fundamentalism is only bad as what you are fundamentalist about. The Quran clearly has violent passages directing others to kill and commits acts of terror. The Bible is clear that nobody is perfect and should all be humble and loving to each other. So comparing all forms of fundamentalism is… well… fundamentally flawed.
The Evangelical movement growing and being able to defend their beliefs, not cower away from criticism, and think outside the box in order to be socially acceptable. This is having polarizing effects on religion and how it plays a part in society. The Intellectual Design movement, the response to 18th century Biblical criticism, New-Age philosophies, and the Christian response to religious pluralism, actually are doing the opposite of what the Fundamentalists did. Now Christians are back on the map.
Non-believers are primarily still stuck in the age where they were arguing against outdated arguments form the Fundamentalist movement. Now there is a whole host of research and academics out there that is primarily being ignored, not because it is bad work but rather because they can not answer it. The accusation that Christians are closed-minded is outdated, and is being forwarded by closed-minded-Fundy-non-believers!
The thinking of rational evangelicals can no longer be ignored or tucked away as merely “fundamentalist” or closed minded or out-dated. Evangelical scholars are in the world, arguing an open mind and an open heart, willing to discuss and take on the issues, and do fair and unbiased work, willing to listen to the latest ideas and not be prejudice because of past mistakes.
Now if non-believers can return the favor!
God Bless! |
|
|
| Atheism is not disbelief! |
[Jun. 10th, 2005|12:53 am] |
| [ | mood |
| | awake | ] |
| [ | music |
| | micture | ] | k from my not being gone, just really busy. So I decided that this LiveJournal thing takes last priority against God, friends, family, work, and school. So I am really far and few behind. Plus, nobody reads these (at least nobody makes it known when they do), and I have only had one comment, which never followed up after my reply. Oh well…
For all of you fans out there, don’t worry this is not a goodbye letter (now some people are angry). It is this-is-not-important-so-I-am-not-going-to-work-too-hard-at-it letter. But I do actually have a pet pee…. Uh.. I mean a theological concern to rant abo… I mean a philosophical thought I would like to share. Here we go…
So a few posts back (if anyone remembers) I did a definition of what a Christian is. Now, since the only possible viable alternative to Christianity is naturalism/atheism, I wanted to think about what that was. And this is an important debate, especially since it has big political and social implications. Basically, the question becomes “Is atheism a religion?” What do you think? (that means that anyone who read this is allowed to post a comment! Like always)
Now the standard secular response is just that, secular. They want to claim that atheism is not a religion because it has no tenants of religion. Atheists don’t: - Believe in a God - Do religious practices to relate to a deity - Allow their belief in God to impact their personal or social life - Evangelize or Proselytize or - Wake up at the wee hours early on Sunday mornings.
Now this claim is, of course, interesting to say the least. And I plan to counter most of these with a simple statement that what they don’t do effects what they do do. And that their beliefs are just as important as Christian beliefs. So this argument is easy in many respects. So go to sleep now…
First, I want to look at the reasons that atheists are so vocal about their non-religion. What is it so important that their beliefs are not religious beliefs? Why do they have to fight for this position? I think the answer is simple….
They do not want to be put in the same box as Christians!
Think about it. Since many spend time bashing Christians, and arguing that their belief is wrong, they do not want to be put under the same scrutiny!
Also, since one major argument against “religionists” is that religion is a major cause for injustice and war in the world, they do not want to think that their beliefs are just as harmful!
Finally, it is to gain a political in step! Few liberals and atheists see this, but they practice it (almost violently). And that is a complete double standard. Because they claim that atheism is not a religion then it does not fit under the rules of (the unexisting) “Separation of Church and State” (that is a different issue). That way they can put their atheology and beliefs in the class room, and forward their ideas in the political arena (abortion, gay marriage, etc. (again, all different topics)). It is the same reason why Christians (like myself) fight so hard to show that our religion is right, so we can have a social step and impact.
They make this claim because they feel that the Truth is on their side, and everything else is just belief. That somehow the “fact” is atheistic naturalism/evolution, and every other claim is somehow just a person’s preference of religion (see my articles on Truth and relativism). And so their point of view is the only point of view worth having. But since both sides make this claim, that they are in the “right” then this claim can only be waged as much as the other side can wage it. Religion is less important to their “science” and is an arbitrary fact that should stay out of the public and social world. The thing is that religious truths are just as viable as secular truths. And the ones that are wrong should be discarded (like macro-evolution).
So here we can see that the reason to make the secular claim that “atheism is not a religion”. I see it serving two purposes! 1) If they rule the field on the social marketplace, then any other group looks like a bunch of morons, no matter how right they may be. (Look a the liberal college system). This way they can repeat reason one, and move on to reason two 2) And that is to hold on to the political and social world. (Interestingly enough, I am actually more a political moderate, but a religious bigot)
Now, they are succeeding in many ways. Young Earth sciences is thought to be stupid (but interestingly enough there is some decent science out there to support it (I am undecided on the age of the universe)), the practice of religion is considered bad, having God in the public place is only negative and dangerous, there are no religious truths, it is “obvious” evolution is true, and miracle are impossible. These are common views held by the majority (especially the truth one), and the secular world is winning.
So, the reasons for the claim is just as guilty as the reasons why religionists, so since their intentions are flawed, lets take a look at if it really is a religion or not.
I believe it is a religion. Not a religion in which you serve a specific theology or do certain tasks. But rather it is how it affects people practically. OK, so atheists don’t: - Believe in a God - Do religious practices to relate to a deity - Allow their belief in God to impact their personal or social life - Evangelize or Proselytize or - Wake up at the wee hours early on Sunday mornings.
But they do: - Have a disbelief in God (a non-belief would be agnostic) - Life a life as if there is no God, and “worship” worldly things like themselves or other created things - Like above, they usually have a more anthropological view of morality and ethics (if any at all), so their atheism does affect their life. - They do proselytize! By trying to dissuade religionists or teach falsehoods to get more people to agree with them. In fact, it is a central piece to contemporary naturalism. To make sure no other beliefs are heard or spread so more people fall under their wing. Also there are many atheist websites and “think tanks” - Ok… this one doesn’t count. It was a joke. And after all, there is a good percentage of Christians who worship on Saturday nights.
In every case that they deny being a religion, we see that the reverse of their claim is just as important to them. And for atheists (not agnostics or secularists), their belief in something that does not exist is just as strong as a claim that something does exist. And it does, in fact, impact their life style and social being.
I see no good reason to say that atheism is not a religion. It is, practically and in belief, just as impactful and important to one’s and the social’s being.
In conclusion… atheism is a religion! And I see no point in thinking that it is not. The only practical implication this could have is for us to stop this political bickering over the church/state issue or keep some level of hard headed bias in our research and try to find the truth, even religious truths. Because the truth is we will not make any progress until we all get on the same page and work together to find the truth, no matter where that least.
Unless my belief is disbelief!
God Bless! |
|
|
| Is man one of God's errors or God one of man's? - Nietzsche |
[Jan. 19th, 2005|09:48 pm] |
| [ | mood |
| | tired | ] |
Hear! Oh Israel, the Lord your God is one. Love the Lord God with all your heart soul mind and strength.
This is a great commandment, it is given in the Old Testament and reiterated in New. But I feel that it is a little more than a command, it is a starting point for people to come to God and understand Him. Take a look at this, it is great:
“Hear!” - One has to listen, and be open to God and His revelation. We know that it is God that saves, and only the Holy Spirit can say Christ is Lord. We must be open to God and His presence. If we shut God out or harden our hearts then there is no way to hear God and His revelation.
“the Lord your God is one.” – This is actually theology. This is probably the most important part in the passage presented. We learn about God and His oneness. We have to understand that God is one, we have to know God and the properties so we can have an appropriate relationship with Him. If we do not understand God, and we do not know what to expect, then we can not have an appropriate relationship with Him. Theology comes before the relationship. This is also important because many people can have a spiritual experience, but without a proper frame of reference, the meaning or understanding of it is lost. This is also why the Bible is important, we see what God has done, and how God has acted historically. Theology is important!
“Love the Lord God…” – the relationship. This is the first step after recognizing who God is, and that is to love God (again, it has to be the right God, theology is important). A relationship with God is the core of the Christian message. To love God is the greatest commandment, and everything else will follow.
But we see that Theology is important, the properties of God, and how He has worked in human history, His characteristics give us a frame of reference to understanding God. But Theology is also great because we can look at the Christian God in comparison to other gods and see great differences. Major difference, some of these differences are great because the properties of God actually lend themselves to show the truth about God. So this article is going to discuss how God is different than the other gods.
One of the first and most important aspects of the Christian God is that He is universal. Only in Judaism and Christianity we see that God is a universal God and He is the God of everyone and everything. Not once in the Bible has God ever claimed to be the Lord only a select group or peoples (except when speaking to Israel about the special covenant He made with them). Other Gods were usually the gods of a certain people group. In fact, in ancient war, whenever two nations fought it was not only a war between peoples, but also of the gods of that nation; even if the war had nothing to do with religion. Yahweh has fought for Israel specifically throughout history, but it was for preservation of the people to keep His promise of the Abrahamic covenant (to bless the whole world Gen 12:3, which was fulfilled in Christ). Even at the peak of Israel’s history, the entrance to Canaan, God is universal and unbiased. As Joshua is entering the promised land, God is still universal and not only the Jewish God. When Joshua asked the angel what side he was on, the angel simply replies “Neither!” (Joshua 5:14). The Christian God is the only historical God who is universal.
And to follow this universality of God, we see that he is the only God. Every other ancient religion has had a pantheistic or polytheistic worldview. And it has always been that way. Many skeptics have set out to show that ancient Israelites worshipped many different gods and it “evolved” into a monotheistic religion; and every skeptic has fallen flat. Only the God of the Jews and Christians believes in a monotheistic God. This is interesting because even modern science separates different theories into schools. We have zoology, psychology, sociology, etc. And it makes sense that ancient humans would create gods to cover each one of these fields. But the ancient Jewish religion is the only ancient religion with monotheism. In fact, compared to all other ancient texts, the covenant between God and the Jews, is the only place where God is the only one. Which is the first commandment (Ex 20:3). Even Islam has come from a polytheistic theology (look up the “satanic versus” and the history Allah (Allah is actually the ancient moon god that was worshipped by Mohammad before creating Islam, thus explaining the use of the crescent moon)). Only the historic Jewish God and the Christian God are truly monotheistic, and expects us to react to Him as a monotheistic God.
And this makes sense. After all, if God created everything then He would be the only thing who created. And this is the next difference between all the “so called” (1 Cor. 8:5) gods and the God. Only the Christian God is the sole creator. In every other ancient creation story the world or humanity is only a byproduct of something that two or more other powers were doing. Sometimes the world is created when the source of good and the source of evil fight, and entangle their powers in the universe. Or that the universe is just spit up or bled out after one of the gods are in battle. Only the ancient Hebrew God was able to create the universe by command alone and by his own powers. God created the universe and the scientific systems, not the He is solely a God for weather or love, like other beliefs. A truly creative God!
Also (I feel that this is the true reason why many people don’t believe), the law code and moral code of the Jewish/Christian God is the strictest in history. When you compare the moral codes of all other religions and other ancient law codes we see a distinct difference. It is the strictest code. God demands perfection from humanity. But most importantly God calls us to a lifestyle of holiness and understanding. To forfeit a life of happiness for a life of joy. We are called to love everyone else, even our enemies. We are called to have a completely devoted relationship with God, only the Christian God calls us to have a proper and loving relationship with Him. In other religions if a god loved you would should hide because it means that you were about to be sexually molested. Or in Eastern religions we are told that god doesn’t matter at all. The holiness and relationship with the Christian God is so far removed from other religions. Compared to all other religions the Bible calls us to a completely different lifestyle.
Also, Christianity is the only ancient religion with grace. Salvation is given to mankind through Jesus Christ for free. Understanding that mankind can not meet the requirements of the lifestyle called, He must sacrifice something to have a relationship with us. In all other religions we are called to do specific works or traditions. Learning something special, doing good acts, or following rituals are what the center of all other beliefs are. With Christ we can be saved without these rituals or specific acts. Salvation is free to humanity through Christ, and it can not be earned by any level of good works. This love and this level of grace is missing from any other religion. Only the Christian God gives us salvation by faith alone. In fact, many other religions do not even offer salvation, not to mention that they may provide a path. And this only makes sense, since God is perfect then Heaven is perfect, and since men are sinners then salvation can’t be earned (that is another difference, human depravity is only true in Judaism and Christianity). And that for men to receive the gift of Heaven, there has to be a sacrifice, and it has to be a gift, not earned. The grace of God is only found in the God of Christianity.
Finally, only in Christianity is God all benevolent. In all other religions the gods are either over-emotional and get angry for unjust reasons, does horrible acts, or acts in unrighteous ways. Even the god of Islam is not described as good, Allah is a harsh god who is described as being both good and bad. Only in Christianity we see that God is a good and holy being.
All of these differences between the Christian God and other gods raise the question of why these differences exist. How do the Jews and early Christians have such a different theology than the rest of the world? Why, when religions are being formed, is Christianity so different than everything else? What is defining the god or gods in religions?
We see that the gods in other religions fit the standards of humanity. Having loose laws on earthly pleasures such as sex and luxury. In fact many pagan religions have gods of sex and money, as well as other “scientific gods” to describe the natural world. Gods that are evil or do not try to help people (this is probably because people like to complain), or gods that force humans to do things against their wills or do harm. And other gods have competition or have not created the world with purpose or reason. All of these gods, when combined, actually create a world that is very similar to human emotions and thought.
But the Christian God is different than all of these human based thoughts. The best reason why the Christian God is different is because it is from a different source, it is from the true God who matches these theological qualities. Wouldn’t it makes sense that if man created gods they would have the properties of man. But since God created man, we are in His image. If the ancient Jews and Christians were creating a religion, wouldn’t it, by nature, be more similar to the pagan gods that were all created by man? (especially since the Jews turn away from God time and again.) These differences just go to show that the Biblical God is true and has revealed Himself in the world.
In fact, now since I look at this it becomes apparent that the values in all other religions are actually shared with the values of materialism and naturalism. This could mean that atheism a religion created by man with man’s purposes, desires, and, thought processes? After all, modern atheism really took hold during the modern period. Which centers men as the ultimate good and purpose of the world (see previous article on modernism/post-modernism).
I take joy in the fact that I am created in God’s image, and not that I try to forge an idol in my image to meet my needs!
God Bless! |
|
|
| It is like the color socks I wear... |
[Dec. 18th, 2004|12:05 am] |
| [ | mood |
| | chipper | ] |
| [ | music |
| | Bob Seger | ] | RACIST!
SEXIST!
FEMINIST!
ECONOMIST?
OK, not every -ist word means it is a negative cut down that tries to tell others that they are close minded bigots. But most the time, when someone calls you a word that ends with-ist endings, you should prolly either take it offensive, or simply thank them.
FUNDEMENTALIST!
"Why, thank you!"
Fundementalist is a funny cut-down. It should not really be taken offensive. it simply means that you are convicted and sure of what you believe in. You believe in the fundementals of what you believe. The people who use it as a cut down really are grouping you with people with the likes of George Washinton, Abe Lincoln, and Martin Luther King Jr. They all held firmly what they believed, and it was good. The same goes with the name "Trouble Maker".
But unlike sex, race, social status, health, looks. (some degree of) mental capabilites, and other variations a human comes in there is a distinct difference that religion has. A person is born in a certain social status, healthy or not, race, and sex, with no choice. Some philosophers like John Rawls calls this "The accident of birth" (now birth is not an accident, and every human life has value, and is created by God in His image). But religion.. is different.
It is chosen. (Let's avoid the predertmination debate for the sake of practicality, at least in practice any Christian would agree that you have to choose God.)
I love it when people yell at people (like me) who claim that the one true way exists. Like if the person said some racist comment. That some how religion doesn't apply to the same equal laws of philosophy and scrutany. If I say that a Scientologist (-ist!!) is wrong, I am all of the sudden a bigot. Not someone who has made a choice based on the best available evidence. I was raised a non-practicing Catholic, turned atheist (another -ist word), then turned Protestant Christian. I made the choice to go from atheist to Christian (unless John Calvin was right). And the secret is this. I would argue that most other people can make the same choice. Unlike what sex or race you grow up with, you can choose religions (right Michael Jackson?). Why is religion somehow different than any other choice that people make in life?
Religion is not what some thinkers have tried to claim, simply a set of moral and personal beliefs that are all pretty much the same. Religion, at least most that I have heard of, claim some level of historical and real truth. Islam claims historical characters and events to have actually happened, Mormons believe that Native Americans are actually Jews (in spite of the DNA evidence), Christians believe that God interacts in the world especially in the person of Jesus Christ, and atheists try like mad to overturn that last claim (although fail (ever notice that Christianity is the main target for modern atheists? I wonder why...?)). Religions claim to act in history, have real people, with real events, and real doctrine. Religion claims to be just real as science.
What I think is the funiest thing about this issue is that people want to make religion arbitrary. Let me make this clear...
RELIGION IS NOT ARBITRARY!
(Clear enough?)(The philosophy that makes religion arbitrary is one of my pet peeves). I would have no problems with people who believe differently than I if they have actually looked at the subject seriously and objectively. If it an educated understanding of religion than they have at least gave it the weight it is worth. A true and fair look. But when people claim that religion is not important, or that all religions are the same, are speaking from simple ignorance. The usually tells me that the person is just spouting out what others tell them without actually thinking about it. Religion is important, and is chosen.
Think about it, how arbitrary is religion? Either God exists or He doesn't. If God exists then He either acts in history or doesn't. If He acts in history then He is either the Jewish God or some other. And if He is the Jewish God then He either incarnated as Christ or didn't. And if He incarnated as Christ (another -ist word!!), than we should all listen to Him. If all of these premises are true, than the last thing in the world religion is, is arbitrary. Look how religion plays out in politics, in world news, in social events, in a person's social beliefs and interactions, and how it has been a major part of life since day one. Religion is as arbitrary as much as it is a non-issue in the world and politics. Religion is as arbitrary as Hell is non-existant (Although I am not a "Fire and Brimstone" evangelist).
And people who treat religion as any other aspect in someone's life is wrong. I would argue it is the most important choice that people can make. Not only does eternity rest on the choice, also so does daily life. Religion plays out in people's lives, no doubt. And it is ignorant to say otherwise.
The idea that religion is arbitrary, or unimportant has originated with modern liberal thought. That saying that anyone who calls anone else wrong is a bigot, or that your religious claims are just preference. So religion got swept together in that. But I do not see too many people claiming that 2+2=5, or 3. That is just false, and if anyone made that claim thier first grade teacher would be all over them! So if a person claims that 2+2=5, and the techer says that they are wrong, then is the teacher a Mathist? (Mathist? I don't know, I come up with this stuff as I go). But the student can very easily look at the evidence and choose to agree with that 2+2 does equal 4. But it is a choice to some degree to accept and put into practice. (2+2 is 4 right? It has been a while since I had a math class.)
But religion is different, unlike like other things in life, religion is not arbitrary or uncontrollable. A person does have a say in what they choose to believe as far as religion goes. And if a person disagrees than the people should look at the differences and go to the best option based on the evidence. Not just say "Well, it is only another religion." That is like saying:
"There might be an all-knowing, all-powerful, loving, judemental, and jealous being who cares about what I do with my life. But this is really not important."
It is clear to see that a rational and moral person has a responsibility to look into the claims of religions, with as much objectivity as possible. In order to find the truth and react in manner that compliments the truths discovered.
Also, there is no real thing as a religious bigot. This is becuase a person believes that thier religion is true, and it usually trying to get others to see it as well, just like a math teacher gets students to agree that 2+2=4. And if the religion is true (like Christianiy is), then it makes no sense that a person should be treated unfairly becuase they want to teach others and share God's love.
So, before anyone makes a claim about religion. It is like making any other truth claim. Make sure they are speaking the truth. Today's overall ignorace of what religions actally are have lead to a generation of religious plurists that claim that two opposing beliefs can both be true. I urge everyone to take a serious look at religion, not just throw it out like the fruit cake you got from Aunt Edna. It could be the most important choice in the world. And it is wrong to treat religion as only a culture or personal thing. Religions thrive off truth claims, and to ignore that fact, and see which truth claims hold up, is just a bad idea (just ask God).
Well, for the time being I will have to continue being called...
RELIGIONIST FUNDEMTNALIST CLOSED MINDED, IGNORANT, OLD TIMER, PERSONIST?
Thank you!
God Bless! |
|
|
| That can't be true... |
[Dec. 8th, 2004|01:59 am] |
| [ | mood |
| | amused | ] |
| [ | music |
| | none | ] | Yeah, I guess I have been wrong all along. Everything I have posted is wrong, and I am sorry if I offended anyone. After all, what kind of person says that they are right, or has knowledge of the truth that others don’t? I guess it is only that I am a bigot that makes me think that I am wrong. In the end, there is not truth!
Right, forget that last paragraph. Especially the conclusion. There is not truth? Huh? What? No truth? How is that possible? I mean if a person says that, then they are saying that “the truth is there is no truth”. Isn’t that a logical mistake?
There is a truth... and it is that there is no truth!
Where do people get this from? I bet the thinking comes more from what was typed in the first paragraph. People are willing to accept anything for the sake of political correctness, even to the point of denying truth. People, instead of calling someone else wrong, deny truth.
This idea of that there is no truth is labeled relativism. That the truth is somehow relative to each person, and that there is no real truth. This idea came partly from Eastern religions like Buddhism, and mostly from the collapse of the Modern theory of truth. I will forgo the religious aspects and talk more basically about how Modernism crashed and lead to this destructive form of Post-Modernism.
Modernism came about in the Enlightenment, a time period that heralded great promises. But it is much like me each month, it wrote checks it can’t cash. Modernism made promises of science, that new sciences and discoveries can yield a great future. With more knowledge we can discover more about the world and human nature. And this will allow us to create a utopia. To have control over the world. It could not keep these promises, especially in light of World War II. In fact, all the technology did was make it more widely known that the world can be a disgusting place and humanity has problems.
Modernism is also built on philosophical grounds that there is a knowable and honest truth. Based on proper and generally accepted truths, people could build up theories and world views that are coherent and congruent. Evidence was provided and accepted, it was used for great discovery. But now scientists are finding things that they can’t explain. It appears there is something greater than science at play. The very foundations of Modernism is in question. More so that we see, as a philosophical fact, human depravity.
And finally, it was based off the basic idea that man is good. With the help of science and knowledge people could learn and act in a certain way. This model of morality based on education actually originated with Socrates. But instead the universe just put out smart people who were immoral. After all, if the person who stole a railroad stake was educated, they would steal the whole track! And this theory of human goodness failed, and the horrors of humanity prevailed over the misconception of human decency. So that was the final straw for Modern thought.
Philosophers scrambled to create a worldview to account for all the facts. It appears that if the foundations and promises of the Modern worldview fail, then there must not be any truth out there. If the foundations of truth are insecure, humans tend to create problems, and there are things that are unexplainable. Thus all of knowledge must be wrong!
Ok, so because of the failures of science and (more specifically) humanity all of knowledge can not be believed. So that there is no truth. But this is not right either, it is not philosophically sound. It is a contradiction to claim that there is no truth. Any philosopher who claims such things has a philosophical problem.
But we can not throw the baby out with the bath water. Because of a few decades of failure doesn’t require such a drastic response. From relying only on intelligence to throwing it out entirely. Is there a possible middle ground, other than this negative form of Post Modernism?
Post Modernism has not only affected our theories of truth, but it has infiltrated our language (I love the people who use words to describe that words mean nothing), our thought, and our moral systems.
I had a person tell me that logic is not needed. That logic, in the end, means nothing. Well, he used logic to make that statement, thus invalidating itself.
I have had people tell me there is no such thing as right and wrong. Moral relativism. So, this means that there is no moral code, and nothing is wrong. That can’t be right?
As a final defense, I have had a person say that truth exists… but we can’t know it. So we know that we can’t know?
Relativism has infiltrated our life, from science, to morality and ethics, and common logic. This has allowed people to be religious relativists. There is no true religion.
Now this statement has a two fold origin. One stems from a sense of political correctness and not wanting to offend anyone who thinks differently. And the other is philosophical relativism. So now all religions in the world are equal.
But we have already discovered that relativism is false, and that people can be wrong about things. So there has to be a middle ground between Modernism and Post-Modernism. Otherwise we are caught in yesterday’s problems and tomorrow’s contradictions.
And I think, that in the middle is religion. And the only congruent religion is Christianity. Christianity provides an answer to all the philosophical objections of both Modernism and Post Modernism.
First of all, Christianity describes humanity as depraved. When given the choice between good and bad, there is a tendency to do wrong. But this does not neglect the possibility of good to come out of people, especially of God works in the person. Morality’s compass is God, and people of God use that compass. If nothing else, people use the law written on their hearts to do right. Even though people may know right from wrong, they often choose to do wrong. This is a good middle ground between the beliefs that “Humanity is good” or “there are no morals”. A denial of morality has lead too many people to do stupid things, and morality has to be upheld or the world would agree that it will end up in chaos.
Christianity is also a good explainer of the unexplained. In Modernism people denied God by saying that science can solve everything. But most scientists, when faced with an objection, usually have to use the “science of the gaps” to help them fill it out. They make a promise of future explanation, but never provide. After all, there is a reason why evolution is still considered a theory! God can do things that are otherwise unexplainable. So there is no need to throw out all of our knowledge of the natural world, but accept that God has sovereignty and has created a world that is primarily self-contained, except for the works of God. Modernism fails partly because of the rejection of miracles.
Finally, Christianity builds good foundations of knowledge. Just because the foundations for knowledge may be weak when left alone, when you use a theological foundation it can strengthen and hold it together. To deny all of knowledge because some of it can be questioned is an extreme view. And all the foundations can be solidified in Christ, the rock which we should build on.
So if religion plays a good part for foundations of the world, then that shows that God has interacted in the world. So we have a God who is able to, and willing to, reveal Himself to us. If this revelation occurs, then it is possible, even likely that He will make himself known to humanity. And the best bet, with the study of history and theology, is Christianity.
Judaism is considered the world’s oldest religion by many thinkers. It has a rich history of miracles and revelation, and has the based on historical truths, especially those of Israel. Now from Judaism came Christianity, and it is the completion of God’s revelation to humanity. It rounds off and completes Judaism as a complete religion, plus the evidence for Christianity is almost insurmountable. Christianity is the real religion, based on history, philosophy, and morality.
And if Modernism or Post-Modernism are worldviews that are created by humans, it has the opportunity for it to be flawed since it is created by a flawed creature. With the problems of Post-Modern relativism and the failures of Modernism, there has to be an answer. There is a truth, there is way, and there is a life…
And through our Lord and Savior… we can know the truth, and the truth shall set us free!
God Bless! |
|
|
| navigation |
| [ |
viewing |
| |
most recent entries |
] |
| [ |
go |
| |
earlier |
] |
| |
|
|